Roland DWX 30

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molarmaker

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Thinking of purchasing this unit, anyone have any experiance with this one or with Roland, any pros or cons. I already talked with David Grimes in Norcross Ga. but would like another indifferent opinion, preferably with one operating in a lab, sorry about being so picky but this being our first mill, we want to make sure.:confused:
 
JohnWilson

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Stan,

Can I ask you why you want to purchase a mill? Wouldn't it be exceedingly more advantageous to just control the design side?

Have you worked out what it will take to break even on this?

Remember its not just the cost to have it in your lab

Make sure you factor in tooling wear into your material cost

Make sure you factor in mill error for every unit and the costs associated with it

Make sure you factor in cost to run the mill along with sintering furnaces IE electricity

Make sure you have a plan not only to make the monthly payment but have a plan in case the market you are considering to exploit changes. For example what do you do with the machine if Zi goes belly up?

Make sure you can make ROI on the unit inside of 2 years as technology is changing so fast that it may become a door stop before then.

Really try and look at your business and ask yourself how will this piece of equipment make me money and then factor the risk involved with such a purchase.

New equipment can really spark life back into our spirits. As a guy that has been burned out I have to say that technology has sparked my interest to the point that I am excited to come to the lab again. However the numbers must jive on any investment we make and we must have a solid plan on how we can exploit the machines potential

I wish you luck on your decision and pat you on the back as you make this big decision on your future.

Good luck,
JOHN
 
Slipstream

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Lease costs over 3 years + material and tool costs for your average monthy unit numbers - factor in labour to trim, stain and sinter= $?
Current buy in cost for the same monthy quantity?

Unless the savings are big, really big, why bother, you have no redundancy if the machine is down, and no comeback for failed units, chipped margins and sintering fractures - and you will get them. You seldom get as many per block as the sales people say.

Yes, control the design with your own scanner, but like John I would question the payback for your own machine.
 
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molarmaker

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Thanks always greaaat advice

In my management training one of the known axioms is control is profit, sending out as many zirc as I do it is the most frustrating part of my day, losing dies, breaking dies, shipping to wrong place, mail late, mail lost, mail closed and that goes just as bad for the private co's but the most aggravating is outsource Co's lying to me. THis system is about 65,000 won't do alot of the implants stuff and precise machining will have to send it out the scanner will help with that I hope, and some of Dr,s will have to stepup and do a little more with their quality and one in particular just out of school is in for a rude awaking and find out I'm not just a old fart and don't know anything, when I show her a PMMA. Don't you just love reality checks. I love doing zirc crowns dont have to burn my fingers as much,looks are fantastic and no more porcelain margins that sometimes take me for ever. I realize this may not be the bed of roses I have pictured but I want it and I want it if hairlips Georgia. My original question does anyone know of this Company and this mill? scanner we'll be Delcam what about a good sintering oven seen some of the China one's on ebay very cheap but very suspious of them.Thank all of you this info I get on dln is priceless it is such a great resource to all of the industry:happy:
 
JayH

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Ask for a 30-60 day trial period in your lab so you can see how it performs in a consistent, real-world application. My $.02
 
DMC

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I had a Roland mill two years ago.

You get what you pay for.

Zirconia would eat that thing up in a matter of months/weeks.

I do not think we will see a big following of Rolands in Dentistry.

Want a 3M scanner for $12,000. It's the $30k unit, not the older design. I'll hook you up, just say the word. I delivered a scanner to GA two weeks ago, and was at Albensi Dental in PA last week. You can get a .stl file out of it. We do everything in a 3M scanner.

I'll get ya free training at 3M and coping under $25 the next day!
Digital Wax prints are $1.95 for Zirconia customers.

A good mill will be 2000lbs. I would not look at anything smaller.
You simply won't get enough units out of a wussy mill to pay for it before it's outdated/broken/worn-out. You need it to make half as many teeth as the dollar amount you spent. I spent $250k on each mill.....I need 125k teeth out of it in five years before it goes into trash to make a profit. About 100 units a day to pay for service contract, rent, electrical, etc.. for each mill. That's running @ 66% capacity. The other 33% of the time is where I could make a profit, but sometimes things don't go my way.

It's working so far, and I'm buying a third mill soon. We see no drop in Zirconia what so ever. Must be doing something right?
 
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AGV

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why agree you

Molarmaker:

I agree you. Roland DWX 30 in the machine that i want. 4 axis, easy to work with, cheap. I know labs that works with it for months/weeks and it's still alive. I think that nowadays is the milling machine for small labs. Cerec-Sirona is good for DRs., but labs needs more. I-mes, I-core are very very good machines ... for a great lab, not for me, becuse price and dificult to resolve problems when problems come (it will). Drs wants quick answer on his demands, and outsorcing is not the path. Two labs of friends have bought DWX 30 few days ago. They are not far from me, so i want to check the miller , and then i will tell you.

PD: Mihm-Vogt is the best owen foe zirconia.
 
AGV

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insatisfaction

I've just seen Roland DWX 30 + Solutionix in a friend's lab, and made a case in Zr. and in castable (the same case). I have to say i'm not satisfied. I don't know if the problem is Soltutionex, Roland or my friend. Better fit in castable than Zr. I'm not sure to purchase now , so i'll wait to IDS Cologne in March. It's said that issues of materials (new METAL to mill in GREEN and sint. later in the furn, DISCS of feldespatic porc. to mill,...) and new mills will be revolutionary. I Will go and i will tell you.Hugs.
 
DMC

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Please tell us about IDS!!
Milling Green metal sounds like fun! Sounds expensive as well.

(hugs, kisses, and a reach-around to you too! LOL ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_smiles_smileysex5.gif )

aalt.coxnewsweb.com_shared_blogs_austin_outandabout_upload_2009_07_bruo_a_gay_man_bruno2.jpg
ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_smiles_smileysex5.gif aalt.coxnewsweb.com_shared_blogs_austin_outandabout_upload_2009_07_bruo_a_gay_man_bruno2.jpg
 
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AGV

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Ha, Ha. You'll have to wait, tiger...popcorn


Anyway, green metal i think(salesmen told me) is developed by Schulz. They will have a milling machine too.So i don't know if the green metal disc will be avalable just for his mill . Roland will present his 5-axis mill for dental works, and more to come.
 
rkm rdt

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"Want a 3M scanner for $12,000. It's the $30k unit, not the older design. I'll hook you up, just say the word."

I'd be interested in that offer.Why so cheap?
 
JohnWilson

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Here is a sweet deal. Truth is if Zi was more active out here I would buy this mill. It is the old style but its the same cost as some scanning systems. Thought I would post it for you guys.


Dental Equipment for sale




We have the following items as a package for sale, DOM 2005 Manufacturer 3M:




1 Lava form dental milling machine

1 Lava scan dental scanner

1 Lava scan software

2 Lava therm sintering ovens

1 lava intro pack mill machine with all frame shade

2 Lava intro pack sintering furnaces

1 Lava intro pack dental scanner




Original price $230,499.48. The machine is located in Anaheim, California. See pictures attached.

Asking price $30,000.




Please let us know of your interest.




Thank you.



Regards,
Ming Kwong
Pathfinders Consultants
136 Sunnyside Avenue
Piedmont, CA 94611
510-652-1373
 
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charles007

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"Want a 3M scanner for $12,000. It's the $30k unit, not the older design. I'll hook you up, just say the word."

I'd be interested in that offer.Why so cheap?

Scott's 12k has already been sold....... I tried to buy, but toooo late.......

Nothing wrong with used 3M scanners, will last for years to come....Add the maintenance agreement and your good as new !
 
DMC

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"Want a 3M scanner for $12,000. It's the $30k unit, not the older design. I'll hook you up, just say the word."

I'd be interested in that offer.Why so cheap?

There was one on ebay for $6999 last month. I found it and told one of my customers in NC. He bought it AND a 3M sintering oven for $6999!! Brand new set-up from lab that went bankrupt. Bought from REPO-Man. (My new best friends)

I only know of a version 1 3M scanner for $7500 now. I might have another new ST scanner very soon, but this one will be around $17,700
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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I guess I should check out ebay before I buy a new 3m or 3 Shape.

Maybe I could sell my Piccolo there too! :pray:
 
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charles007

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I guess I should check out ebay before I buy a new 3m or 3 Shape.

Maybe I could sell my Piccolo there too! :pray:

If you want a 3M scanner, go for it, new or used.

If you want a 3Shape, instead, buy a iMetric/Delcam scanner and save on the cost of the scanner up front, and save thousands on the yearly software update cost for years to come.
You can't buy the new Delcam scanner on ebay since the new models haven't come to the US market yet..... Delcam only has one to show over the country as of this month.
Lucky me will receive the first one sold in the US sold which I receive in Dec....
Still wish I could buy a 12k ST Lava scanner......
 
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RLD

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I had a Roland mill two years ago.

You get what you pay for.

Zirconia would eat that thing up in a matter of months/weeks.

I do not think we will see a big following of Rolands in Dentistry.

How could you have a Roland two years ago if the DWX models were just introduced? If you had a Roland mill more than a year ago then it was not designed for Zirconia. Without a way to capture the dust any mill would be destroyed by Zirconia.

I saw the DWX models at LMT and the design included a way to capture and control the dust so it would not destroy the machine. At $20K for the DWX-30 and $30K for the DWX-50 these seem like a good choice for labs to expand into CAD/CAM without a second mortgage.

A few of the people that I talked to at the show had much more expensive mills in their lab but were looking at getting multiple DWX-50's to expand their Zirconia business with a faster return on investment.

I thought Roland was a German company but when I looked into it I saw that they are a large Japanese company. All the machines are designed, engineered and built in Japan. They make all sorts of things from printers to mills. Based on what I saw at LMT and what I learned about the company I think we are actually going to see a lot of Roland in Dentistry. Time will tell.
 
Mark Jackson

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How could you have a Roland two years ago if the DWX models were just introduced? If you had a Roland mill more than a year ago then it was not designed for Zirconia. Without a way to capture the dust any mill would be destroyed by Zirconia.

I saw the DWX models at LMT and the design included a way to capture and control the dust so it would not destroy the machine. At $20K for the DWX-30 and $30K for the DWX-50 these seem like a good choice for labs to expand into CAD/CAM without a second mortgage.

A few of the people that I talked to at the show had much more expensive mills in their lab but were looking at getting multiple DWX-50's to expand their Zirconia business with a faster return on investment.

I thought Roland was a German company but when I looked into it I saw that they are a large Japanese company. All the machines are designed, engineered and built in Japan. They make all sorts of things from printers to mills. Based on what I saw at LMT and what I learned about the company I think we are actually going to see a lot of Roland in Dentistry. Time will tell.

Roland makes great machines. You won't regret it if you decide to buy one. I'll put my reputation on it.
 
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charles007

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I saw the DWX 50 ...5 axis. auto changer at LMT .. this is a great deal for a table top to mill wax and zir.......
If I hadn't put all my eggs in one basket, I would buy it for sure.
Wonder how long the warranty is ?
 
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