Roland DWX-30 vs. Wieland Mini.

[paulg100]

wow, thats awesome compared to what im used to.

thanks for posting.

 

[Shaun Keating]

Hi All,
As discussed, here is a real close up shot of a full contour zirconia crown margin milled on our Roland. I just can't imagine anything better. If it were, it would likely not be noticeable until you get over 100X mag.
Bob

That's excellent Bob.....a picture truly is worth a thousand words....Rolands Rule Don't worry about Scotty boy and his hate for Rolands....he just has a real passion for his machines, and I think that's a great thing to feel so strongly about them. We love our Rolands here at KDA also....I could have picked and bought anything on the market....I went with Roland. I also have a kickass drum set from them....someday I hope to take over for Lars and be Metallica's next drummer

 

[BobCDT]

wow, thats awesome compared to what im used to.

thanks for posting.

That's Roland!!!

 

[paulg100]

Bob,

can i ask what scanner was used for that crown?

 

[BobCDT]

Bob,

can i ask what scanner was used for that crown?

We use 3Shape. However, the primary reasons why the crown looks so good are as follows:
1. We have a propriatery anatomic library. So the form in the initial proposal is all there.
2. We use a Pre-sintered multi shading technique.
3. We have (what we believe to be) the most translucent zirconia on the market.
4. Using GC Luster Paste for final S&G. This really makes a big difference.
5. Mill strategy, we are using a 0.3mm tool. I'm pretty sure most are not using such a small tool for final anatomical detail.
You can check all this out, it's in our website.
CAP Incorporated: Custom Automated Prosthetics, Dental Implant Abutments, Lava Zirconia Frameworks, Outsource Abutment
Hope this helps,
Bob

 

[Drizzt]

So Bob , would you recomend the Roland as a first mill for a lab , instead of Origin 500 ? In order to achieve the result you have shown us , do you need special custom made milling strategies , or an average user with no milling experience can do this as well ? Thank you .

P.S. Love your anatomy library !

 

[DMC]

Bob,

So I guess you have tried Amann Girrbach's new HT stuff?

Bloodent?
Upcera?
TD Dental?
Sagemax?
Lava Plus?

etc, etc.....

Ivoclar's new stuff?

Many of those have quite a percentage of Hafnium-Oxide and AlO2 and look very nice!

And you have seen them all and you have the most translucent huh?

Also, in your CAD design, do you even have any radius that is .3mm? Have you bothered to measure the maximum radius of mesh to match up with your milling tool? Ask one of your Computer Gurus to measure it one day.

I think you are wasting your time with .3mm on the exterior of crown.
I could possible see using it on internal surface, if customer has NOT applied any radius-compensation in the CAD software (which most all people do use it.) Do you have your customers change their setting in 3Shape to match your tool radius? If not, then that too is a waste of time.

I find that most people are using at least .7m radius compensation, or more. So....we only use small tools on inside fo special cases that have been designed to be milled with such tools.

Like a very flared out anterior prep. We would not choose to use any extra spacing for compensation of tools, but rather step down to extreme small tools for CAM and mlling that one case.

 

[DMC]

http://haasportal.net/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/DS_OMseries_US.pdf

This mill can cut up to 12,700mm/minute! That is about 8x faster than a Roland can do. The reason is because of the weight and stregnth of the basic frame, and the rigidity of the rails and other moving parts. It can "hold-together" without breaking itself into pieces while moving at such high velocity...back and fourth, up and down. The overall accuracy and repeatability is like trying to compare a Yugo to a Porsche, or C6 Vette.

I believe the Roland is rated at only 1800mm/minute or so maximum feedrate cutting in the Z-axis.

The Roland would/does flex and bend because there really is no frame at all, and the rails are from a paper printer. It is Micky-Mouse!@

 

[DMC]

From Roland's web-site.....


".....Positioning accuracy +/-0.004"/12"(+/-0.1mm/300mm), under no-load conditions
Repeat accuracy +/-0.0019"(+/-0.05mm),under no-load conditions +/-0.0008"(+/-0.02mm),under no-load conditions
Origin reproducibility (when the power is switched on/off) +/-0.0019" (+/-0.05mm) +/-0.0008" (+/-0.02m) ...."


Bob, you are so in the dark about what you are stating.
Impossible to even be close to accurate to 50uM.
The run-out alone of the spindle is enough to go outside of the tolerance of Dentistry, then add in the above slop!

 

[DMC]

Bob, you do know of course know that .1mm = 100uM? Right?

Even Roland would not make such crazy claims about their mill being accurate to .005um.

That's just plain silly talk.

 

[BobCDT]

So Bob , would you recomend the Roland as a first mill for a lab , instead of Origin 500 ? In order to achieve the result you have shown us , do you need special custom made milling strategies , or an average user with no milling experience can do this as well ? Thank you .

P.S. Love your anatomy library !

Hi,*

I have never worked with the Origin 500 so I really can't provide a viable comparative analysis. However, I do know the guys at Origin and like them a lot. *They can usually customize milling strategies for you depending on what your needs are, so I'd recommend asking them.

We have created our own milling strategies with the Sum3D CAM that we use for our Roland mills. We are a Sum 3D reseller. *We would definitely provide the mill strategy for the restoration shown to any new (or past) SUM 3D customer of ours. I would recommend the Roland for a first mill if your intention is to fill it with zirconia, wax and PMMA. However, if you want to mill metals you should look elsewhere. *The Roland is very easy to use and will produce restorations like the photo i posted in this thread. There is no magic to it, no genius CAM person required. *If you (or someone in your lab can do CAD) the CAM and mill part will be simple. Obviously, *to get results like the pics posted your design would require similar detail.

For more info you can go to our website.
CAP Incorporated: Custom Automated Prosthetics, Dental Implant Abutments, Lava Zirconia Frameworks, Outsource Abutment

Bob

 

[GoldRunner]

From Roland's web-site.....


".....Positioning accuracy +/-0.004"/12"(+/-0.1mm/300mm), under no-load conditions
Repeat accuracy +/-0.0019"(+/-0.05mm),under no-load conditions +/-0.0008"(+/-0.02mm),under no-load conditions
Origin reproducibility (when the power is switched on/off) +/-0.0019" (+/-0.05mm) +/-0.0008" (+/-0.02m) ...."


Bob, you are so in the dark about what you are stating.
Impossible to even be close to accurate to 50uM.
The run-out alone of the spindle is enough to go outside of the tolerance of Dentistry, then add in the above slop!

Sorry Scott, their stuff fits much better than your crap, and it does not look muddy. Your printing sucks also.

 

[Drizzt]

Hi,*

I have never worked with the Origin 500 so I really can't provide a viable comparative analysis. However, I do know the guys at Origin and like them a lot. *They can usually customize milling strategies for you depending on what your needs are, so I'd recommend asking them.

We have created our own milling strategies with the Sum3D CAM that we use for our Roland mills. We are a Sum 3D reseller. *We would definitely provide the mill strategy for the restoration shown to any new (or past) SUM 3D customer of ours. I would recommend the Roland for a first mill if your intention is to fill it with zirconia, wax and PMMA. However, if you want to mill metals you should look elsewhere. *The Roland is very easy to use and will produce restorations like the photo i posted in this thread. There is no magic to it, no genius CAM person required. *If you (or someone in your lab can do CAD) the CAM and mill part will be simple. Obviously, *to get results like the pics posted your design would require similar detail.

For more info you can go to our website.
CAP Incorporated: Custom Automated Prosthetics, Dental Implant Abutments, Lava Zirconia Frameworks, Outsource Abutment

Bob

I would love to be able to mill metal but the cost for doing this , is much bigger than my budget . So I am buying a mill that can mill only soft materials . If Roland can produce a result like the one you posted then why not buying it . The cost is lower than anything I have found . The ROI will be faster . As for the design I am in love with your library , so I think I am going to purchase it ! You do sell it don't you ?

 

[NicelyMKV]

Bob, have you tried milling wax or PMMA with your tooth library and the smaller bur? If so, how did it come out? Good occlusal detail at a 1:1 ratio?

Crown looks great by the way

Jason

 

[BobCDT]

Bob, have you tried milling wax or PMMA with your tooth library and the smaller bur? If so, how did it come out? Good occlusal detail at a 1:1 ratio?

Crown looks great by the way

Jason

Hi Jason,
Yes we have found a great millable wax. In addition it handles very well in the analog enviornment as well. I will try to post some photos of full contour wax over the next couple of days.
Bob

 

[YMS96]

Sorry Scott, their stuff fits much better than your crap, and it does not look muddy. Your printing sucks also.

LOL. Who cares about numbers on paper though? If it fits, it fits. The Roland is making a lot of people very happy and is a good bang for the buck if you want to get into the game.

 

[vitorsmg]

Wieland Mini Burs

Hello erverybody!!
I'm from Brazil and i bought a mini here at 2 months, and I loved it...
It help us a lot... I mill zr, pmma and wax.
The problem in brazil is the bur prices that's to expensive.
Each one in brazil we pai 120 dollars. Where can I found a cheapper price for it? Anyone here have one option for that???

 

[dentcre]

Here is the final restoration!

very nice. im looking into getting a mill in 2013,
..

 

[vache]

Can anyone compare the Roland DWX-4 with the wieland mini?
Price?
Quality?
Speed?
I am looking to purchase a small dental mill.

Thanks,

 

[BobCDT]

Bob, have you tried milling wax or PMMA with your tooth library and the smaller bur? If so, how did it come out? Good occlusal detail at a 1:1 ratio?

Crown looks great by the way

Jason

Yes, we are now milling (on a Roland) all wax in my lab. Here are some results. The E-tech printer has become a dust collector.