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zamboni

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Having problems with teeth coming out, using bonding agent, mechanical retention, mostly vita teeth.Not sure what else to do?
 
JohnWilson

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Couple of questions for you...

How are you processing? Heat Cured Flask? Heat Cured Injection? Pour Type?

How are you cleaning the flask/teeth? Do you use a final rinse with fresh clean boiling water?

Do rough up the surface of the teeth prior to curing?

The number one reason quality denture teeth do not adhere to the denture base is because the teeth are not clean.

The use of a so called bonder does not allow the tech to be sloppy when de-waxing a case. The main ingredient in these bonders is the liquid you use to mix with your powder. If the teeth are dirty the bonder does not clean the wax off and this film on the teeth does not let the acrylic soften/etch the teeth and a chemical bond is not achieved.

Save your money for other things than bonder. Just roughen up the teeth when you set up the case and clean you flask pristinely and just use regular liquid to prime the teeth. We have not had a tooth "pop" out of a denture in years following this technique.
 
Brian

Brian

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What prep steps are you taking? You shouldn't need bonding agents.

Are you cleaning the teeth properly before processing? What acrylic and what method are you using?
If press packing you should try Diamond D, they have an additive to increase chemical bonding.

Bunch of questions here that need to be answered before we can find you a solution.popcorn
 
sixonice

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How are you processing your dentures (injection,press-pack or pour?). That will help us help you determine what may be going on.
 
CloudPeakDL

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- I use a cotton swab soaked in monomer to clean teeth after I have used seperator. Also grind on all teeth before setting in wax. Pressed flasks must set at least 1/2 hour before processing, an hour is better.
 
Clear Precision Dental

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I had the same problem for a while, and it seemed to happen with either Ivocap or conventional (I use Fricke Hi-I Special fiber "T" = a beautiful resin!). I was roughening the teeth to break the glaze and still had the problem, and I was rubbing them with monomer (I tried both self-cure and heat cure) before processing. Still had some problems.

The thing that cured it for me, and I haven't had a problem since, is to paint, with a brush, the separator taking care to NEVER get any on the teeth, and then I swab (with a Q-tip) all surfaces of the exposed teeth with ACETONE that I got from the local hardware store, and rub in different directions until they squeek.

On occation, I've popped each individual tooth out of the counter-die (I use Flexistone over the teeth prior to investing),held them with fancy hemostats and steam cleaned them. I'll still use the acetone on the underside of the teeth and then a dot of superglue on the buccal cusp when putting them back to keep them from "floating" during processing (which I've had happen with the Ivocap a half-a-dozen times).

It also seems the fancier, premium Double-Cross-Linked teeth are less porous and less prone to bond with the denture base. It seems like I have to be a lot more anal-retentive today than I had to be back using cheap-ass New-Hue teeth and Lucitone 199.
 
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Brian

Brian

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I had the same problem for a while, and it seemed to happen with either Ivocap or conventional (I use Fricke Hi-I Special fiber "T" = a beautiful resin!). I was roughening the teeth to break the glaze and still had the problem, and I was rubbing them with monomer (I tried both self-cure and heat cure) before processing. Still had some problems.

The thing that cured it for me, and I haven't had a problem since, is to paint, with a brush, the separator taking care to NEVER get any on the teeth, and then I swab (with a Q-tip) all surfaces of the exposed teeth with ACETONE that I got from the local hardware store, and rub in different directions until they squeek.

On occation, I've popped each individual tooth out of the counter-die (I use Flexistone over the teeth prior to investing),held them with fancy hemostats and steam cleaned them. I'll still use the acetone on the underside of the teeth and then a dot of superglue on the buccal cusp when putting them back to keep them from "floating" during processing (which I've had happen with the Ivocap a half-a-dozen times).

It also seems the fancier, premium Double-Cross-Linked teeth are less porous and less prone to bond with the denture base. It seems like I have to be a lot more anal-retentive today than I had to be back using cheap-ass New-Hue teeth and Lucitone 199.

Really?
 
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I use lucitone 199 press pack,kavo boilout system. From reading the post I think that am getting separator on the teeth and need to clean boilout more often. Thanks for all the info
 
yooper886

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Are you using the kavo boilout tank as well? If so there might be your problem since there is not clean water source. I use the same boilout tank and have been looking to replace it for a while now, I am just waiting to see if I will be moving in a new facility in the next year or so. I would make sure you are roughing the teeth up and after painting with seperator make sure you clean them off with a q-tip dipped in clean monomer. I do this and only get teeth to pop out once in a blue moon.

Hope this helps you out some.
 
Brian

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Flushing with clean hot water is a crucial! Yoop try using your poly bath!
Andy Turbyfill told me he picked up an old used one off e-bay. He has it elevated and rigged the drain tube to be used as a wash hose.

The Q-tip deal can also yeild other problems. Make sure to squezze the excess monomer from the tip, all you need is the tip moist, wipe then flip the tip to the dry side and rub til you get a squeak.

Gotta run, the enauseation is on, someone said Obama may try and feed all those people with a loaf of bread and a fish ~
 
yooper886

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Does anyone have any recommendations to a boilout tank they like?

Excess monomer can lead to other problems, to much and you might as well not put seperator on the models. You have to use clean or virgin monomer. I have seen others use a dish that they do not bother cleaning out and the monomer seems to gel in the bottom of it and I can not imagine that would be any good.

BTW Brian, congrats on the birth of your newborn. I only have one but it is by far one of the happiest times of my life. In fact I actually missed the birth because I was so happy I was crying the whole time....or maybe those were sympathy tears for the little bit of pain my wife was in while giving birth. Either way it is still one fo the happist times of my life!
 
sixonice

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Does anyone have any recommendations to a boilout tank they like?

The Nevin 5400 Electric Washout System works very nice. It is sold through dealers (Harris Discount Supply, Lincoln). Below is a description I cut & pasted from their website:

"5400 Electric Washout and Cure system uses touch pad on the face of the unit to program start times, finish times and length of time for the curing cycle. The 5400 Electric Washout and Cure System accommodates 6 flask halves for washout and 12 clamped flasks for curing. It requires 220V single phase electrical current and the program remains in memory even if the power is interrupted. The Electric Washout and Cure System is constructed of stainless steel and no venting is needed for benchtop use".
 
Brian

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Does anyone have any recommendations to a boilout tank they like?
I made mine from a 3 deep section sanitation sink they came out of an old deli.

The hood is from an old Denny's that went belly up, has fresh air intake, gave 200 bucks.

Thanks Bill! Yes birth is a wonderful thing!
 
JohnWilson

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Does anyone have any recommendations to a boilout tank they like?

The Nevin 5400 Electric Washout System works very nice. It is sold through dealers (Harris Discount Supply, Lincoln). Below is a description I cut & pasted from their website:

"5400 Electric Washout and Cure system uses touch pad on the face of the unit to program start times, finish times and length of time for the curing cycle. The 5400 Electric Washout and Cure System accommodates 6 flask halves for washout and 12 clamped flasks for curing. It requires 220V single phase electrical current and the program remains in memory even if the power is interrupted. The Electric Washout and Cure System is constructed of stainless steel and no venting is needed for benchtop use".

I have had this unit for over 15 years and have moved it to 3 different locations and its now in its final resting place. Its a solid machine and I would recommend it highly.
 
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It's a little ghetto but you can always get off on the cheap and use a turkey roaster. It heats up super quick in the mornings, couldn't be easier to clean and when it breaks you're only out $30.

I use one for a boil out and a separate one for curing. Works great!
 
Kreyer

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Here is a summary of published literature on this subject. The basic result from testing at UCSF is remove the glaze before processing and wet the acrylic resing tooth with monomer before processsing. As John and Brian stated there are many variables to take into consideration such as clean boil-out, separating solution and processing techniques.

The complete article can be read in JPD or online at Elsevier


Failure load of acrylic resin denture teeth bonded to high impact acrylic resins☆☆☆★★★

Donna Barpal, DDSa, Donald A. Curtis, DMDb, Frederick Finzen, DDSb, Jovin Perry, BSc, Stuart A. Gansky, DrPHd



Abstract
Statement of problem. Techniques for bonding denture teeth to an acrylic resin denture base remain empirical, with little consensus from the literature, among clinicians, or among dental laboratories. Purpose. This study evaluated the failure load of acrylic resin teeth bonded to 2 high impact acrylic resins. Methods and material. The ridge lap portion on 120 identical denture teeth were modified with 3 variables: (1) placing a diatoric, (2) using monomer to prewet the denture tooth, and (3) breaking the glaze. Variables were combined to form 6 groups of 10 teeth each, and processed with Lucitone 199 (Lucitone) or SR-Ivocap (Ivocap) acrylic resin. Data analysis included the use of a heterogeneous variance linear regression model. Results. Mean (± SD) failure load ranged between 10.25 ± 1.48 Kg to 28.43 ± 11.05 Kg for the 6 Ivocap groups and 16.63 ± 5.87 Kg to 28.05 ± 5.35 Kg for the Lucitone groups. For Lucitone 199 acrylic resin, the highest failure loads resulted when the ridge lap was left with an intact glaze and did not have a diatoric, with no significant influence from the use of monomer. For Ivocap resin, the highest failure loads resulted when the ridge lap had a diatoric but did not have monomer placed, with no significant influence from glaze. Conclusion. Failure load of bonding highly cross-linked denture teeth to SR-Ivocap or Lucitone 199 acrylic resin was significantly influenced by modifications to the ridge lap before processing. (J Prosthet Dent 1998;80:666-71.)
 
C

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For Lucitone 199 acrylic resin, the highest failure loads resulted when the ridge lap was left with an intact glaze and did not have a diatoric, with no significant influence from the use of monomer. For Ivocap resin, the highest failure loads resulted when the ridge lap had a diatoric but did not have monomer placed, with no significant influence from glaze.

So lucitone wants a diatoric and with a broken glaze, monomer having no effect.
Ivocap needs only monomer with no diatoric and broken glaze having no effect.

Is there something about the two acrylics that would make the results mirror opposites?
 
Kreyer

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CShof,

It has more to do with the processing systems
Lucitone=pack/press
Ivocap= continuous press.

I do not have time this morning to elaborate and will do so later today.

Rob
 

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