Removable lab going digital?

rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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Those paper weights have been traded in.
 
krashd133

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With Cerac they got sold something they were told "this technology will replace your lab" when it just shifted the labwork from outsourcing to insourcing.

Digital I/O scanning and CAD/CAM in the laboratory is the same relationship with the labs, just using technology to eliminate some sources of errors and inefficiencies. Some of the basic ones like time & distance of pickup are easy to see, others like possible model work(Impression) errors/inaccuracies, CAD/CAM accuracies and magnification, and easier & efficient laboratory workflows are harder to see until your actually using them.
 
krashd133

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How much more will these mentioned things cost Dr. (us lol) over a traditional splint, guide, tray, etc....
I don't know about you but for me there is only a certain maximum value you can put on a throwaway single use aid.... and a hunnertdolla tray or straight clear guide-- (no gp or barium) ain't flyin' in my hood.


Yea I agree those guides and trays are not always welcomed by the Dr's placing implants...(too pricey or whatnot, etc.)
...but then when they screw up the placement and we are left to fix it with limited results and it looks like lab tech is the one who couldn't get the job done.

Its not easy but those guides and trays allow the lab to get into the conversation at the beginning of the treatment plan, before an implant is placed. If you can help the Dr to a better prosthetic outcome then he might be able to see the value in it, but that also speaks to a person's/labs experience and level of expertise in implants.

They might not be used much right now but I think they will grow in use if the labs and docs start to see the benefits, which are becoming well documented in the journals.
 
JKraver

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That is where its heading, just saying don't jump for joy and buy whole hog until you have a Dr or two who are both all in and enjoy the process.
 
rkm rdt

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That is where its heading, just saying don't jump for joy and buy whole hog until you have a Dr or two who are both all in and enjoy the process.

All in?
How the hell would you accomplish that with a dr who went all in with someone other than you?
 
krashd133

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There's some new places emerging to find equipment and technologies that can bring costs down, done smartly you can make your investment more modular and not have to buy into a whole system and the high $price involved.

Here's an example of an $3500 open system 3d printer with FDA approved materials...http://formlabs.com/products/materials/dental-sg/
 
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Marylandfarmer

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Yea I agree those guides and trays are not always welcomed by the Dr's placing implants...(too pricey or whatnot, etc.)
...but then when they screw up the placement and we are left to fix it with limited results and it looks like lab tech is the one who couldn't get the job done.

Its not easy but those guides and trays allow the lab to get into the conversation at the beginning of the treatment plan, before an implant is placed. If you can help the Dr to a better prosthetic outcome then he might be able to see the value in it, but that also speaks to a person's/labs experience and level of expertise in implants.

They might not be used much right now but I think they will grow in use if the labs and docs start to see the benefits, which are becoming well documented in the journals.
Agreed, it is all to often that we, as the lab, need to do "Herodontics" to make the bag of garbage handed to us work. The discussion about the case needs to start before the implants are placed. Most surgeons never see the patient after the implants are uncovered. They just send the patient to the dentist to have the teeth made, they send the case to us and we have to fix it. When it fails, it is our fault. As they used to say on "Late Night with David Letterman" Somebody's gonna get sued. It should be the surgeon.
 
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I don't think we will ever get great results with digital impressions for full dentures. You have to have material to displace and compress soft tissue for good denture fits. A totally passive scan of the soft tissue is going to give a terrible fit and an incredible number of sore spots.

Fully tooth born partials are one thing, but full dentures and partials with a distal extension are going to be problems.
 
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I don't think we will ever get great results with digital impressions for full dentures. You have to have material to displace and compress soft tissue for good denture fits. A totally passive scan of the soft tissue is going to give a terrible fit and an incredible number of sore spots.

Fully tooth born partials are one thing, but full dentures and partials with a distal extension are going to be problems.

I'll double down with you.
I need this gig...
 
2thm8kr

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Throughout history we have come up with things to make life 'easier', maybe it doesn't work perfectly at first. Over time it gets dialed in and then nearly perfected I think this is the case for digital dentures. Maybe not tomorrow, but the next day.
 
JKraver

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Throughout history we have come up with things to make life 'easier', maybe it doesn't work perfectly at first. Over time it gets dialed in and then nearly perfected I think this is the case for digital dentures. Maybe not tomorrow, but the next day.
2th is right, digital dentures is the future just like it has been in C+B. A digital set up and it being relined will come first it will get dialed in. Even if it works 90% for 90% of patients. It will be valuable, saves chair time and reduces user error.
 
Doris A

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Maybe someday, but the doctors that I work with don't want perfect Hollywood smiles and they're not afraid to pick up a wax spatula and move a tooth. They can't do that
with a digital set up.
 
2thm8kr

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2th is right, digital dentures is the future just like it has been in C+B. A digital set up and it being relined will come first it will get dialed in. Even if it works 90% for 90% of patients. It will be valuable, saves chair time and reduces user error.
I am designing digital dentures, printing, relining with CoeSoft or similar, adding a little radio opaque material for use as a CBCT scan appliance. Merging design for the digital surgical planning. Milling the same design that has been modified out of PMMA for an immediate temp in certain situations. Got a good one I am starting tomorrow, full mouth.
 
2thm8kr

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Maybe someday, but the doctors that I work with don't want perfect Hollywood smiles and they're not afraid to pick up a wax spatula and move a tooth. They can't do that
with a digital set up.
No, but it is easily done in the software.
 
JKraver

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I am designing digital dentures, printing, relining with CoeSoft or similar, adding a little radio opaque material for use as a CBCT scan appliance. Merging design for the digital surgical planning. Milling the same design that has been modified out of PMMA for an immediate temp in certain situations. Got a good one I am starting tomorrow, full mouth.
Post pictures if possible.
 
JKraver

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I want to see a milled/printed wax denture base you put
Maybe someday, but the doctors that I work with don't want perfect Hollywood smiles and they're not afraid to pick up a wax spatula and move a tooth. They can't do that
with a digital set up.
That's fine, when the world moves on from analog either be retired, or move with it.
 
Doris A

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Oh I agree someday we'll be going that way. But with the doctors we're working with now it won't be any time soon.
 
rkm rdt

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I never saw monlithic zirconia crowns on the horizon .

Who knows what is going on behind the scenes. There's too much money at stake to assume it can't be done.

All I do know is that it won't be done the way it is now.
 
2thm8kr

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We have found it is really hard to teach old dogs new tricks unless they are motivated by challenges. The ones that aren't, I can wait them out. The younger generation of docs already 'get' digital and accept it as the future.
 

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