Refrigerated Air Dryer

[lifelikedental]

My apologies. Ive become an air snob.
Theres several ways to get there, but truely dry air on our scale will cost 1500 to 2000 dollar. Its not cheap, but its worth it.
Never substitute my judgement for your own. I often do six stupid things before breakfast.

so which one do you have? I have 2 800 dollar refrigerant air dryer from grainger. I've connected desiccant dryer after the unit to remove as much moisture as possible. I still feel that it isnt enough.

 

[user name]

so which one do you have? I have 2 800 dollar refrigerant air dryer from grainger. I've connected desiccant dryer after the unit to remove as much moisture as possible. I still feel that it isnt enough.

Does your compressor have an after cooler? If not, is your refrigerated dryer rated to accept 180 degree input temps? Thats the first thing that must be properly matched. If youre putting hot air into a refrig dryer thats not made for it, it cant work effectively.

Do you have an oil/water separator before the refrig? Thats a must.

After the refrige, placed close to your point of use, you should have your desiccant dryer. Preferably two. Im a dry air snob...I use three. I like the dryers from RTi, MD4. They use a replacement cartridge that I swap out every quarter.

 

[user name]

Jensen just released a technical bulletin on the importance of dry air. Contact them for a copy. Its worth it.

 

[JMN]

@user name
You might be an airsnob, but you are the Air Guru of DLN.

A wise person learns from others mistakes and their own.
An intelligent one from his own.
A stupid one, never admiting failure, never learns.

 

[JMN]

Here's the tech bulletin from Jensen Username was talking about.
Put it in the resources section so it can be found again in 5 weeks.

PDF - Clean Dry Air

This is a tech bulletin from Jensen on what mills like to get fed and how to acheive the clean dry air they really want. Clean and Dry may mean more than you initially think, an oil filter and moisture trap ain't gonna cut it. This lays out the...

dentallabnetwork.com

 

[doug]

The refrigerator dryer I posted was over $1300. when I bought it 4 years ago. It's now around $800. That's a bargain. Grainger has great service and support as well.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Thank you for your participation in the topic.
yes, you speak. do not afford us cheap things.
but it is not an art to spend too much money and only expect quality. I mean what needs to be fulfilled and how it can be achieved not to overpay.
that is, to supply the air quality appropriate to the milling machine, you need to supply no hot air to the refrigerator dryer and before the machine set the filters.
So I am buying a dryer with the dew pointof 2 'Celsius and air capacity of 500 liters per minute , 10 bars working pressure. Then i put filters before dryer and in room where machine will be. Hope its enough.

 

[user name]

Oil/water separator before the dryer, filters after the dryer. A dryer that gets you at 2 degrees celcius is 35 degrees fahrenheit. That temp still hold lots of moisture. You need to get your dew point down at least another 30+ degress. More would be better.

My mills have been working hard since the end of 2012 with no issues. Add some moisture to the equation...? Theres no repair on a mill that costs less than providing dry air. Read the tech bulletin from Jensen that JMN posted.

 

[JMN]

Think about it like this.

You spend how much on insurance for things that probably will never happen and thst money is gone. It did nothjng for you aside from shift some responsibikity for a peril.

Spending money to go from a passably functional to a properly outfitted air system will not only be far less than a week downtime and a spindle rebuild, but it will make everything about that mill output better and your burr life last longer. Burrs are expensive enough, why buy them faster than you need? Why remill when you can avoid it.
Don't step over dollars to pick up pennies.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Guys, im really confused.
Refrigerated dryers are the most common type of compressed air dryer. They remove water from the air stream by cooling the air to approximately 38 °F and effectively condensing out the moisture in a

controlled environment. 38 °F is the realistic lower limit for a refrigerated dryer because a lower temperature runs the risk of freezing the separated water.


So i need diffrent type of than refrigerated.

https://www.airbestpractices.com/te...dryers-refrigerant-and-regenerative-desiccant

 

[JMN]

Guys, im really confused.
Refrigerated dryers are the most common type of compressed air dryer. They remove water from the air stream by cooling the air to approximately 38 °F and effectively condensing out the moisture in a

controlled environment. 38 °F is the realistic lower limit for a refrigerated dryer because a lower temperature runs the risk of freezing the separated water.


So i need diffrent type of than refrigerated.

https://www.airbestpractices.com/te...dryers-refrigerant-and-regenerative-desiccant

You havd two numbers conflated.

The air temperature.
This one I know you got.

The dewpoint.

Dew point - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

At the dewpoint and above water vaper condenses into water. This is a central part of measuring humidity.
In the summer when the dewpoint is very high so the air is more of an insulator and does a terrible jobof carryin away your body heat with a breeze. Tjis is high humidity.

You want the dewpoint low as you can so that water vapor will turn to water condensaton and runs into the water release points. The lower the dewpoint the more water the air will release and the less will remain in the airsystem. No matter the actual temp the dew point being 10 deg lower in one system will release more than in a duplicate system with a higher dewpoint.

If that doesn't make enough sense still, please ask again.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

I know. Lower temp of air is less moisture in. Buuut.
There is air class.

so you can not reach the 3 class quality of compressed air, using refrigerant air dryer.
refrigerant air dryer.
these refrigerant dryer have a dew point of only about 3 degrees Celsius.
So they can be used as pre cooling.
to achieve the class 3, 2 or 1 you need a different type air dryer.
Adsorption dryer can eleminate water vapor to class 1 of air quality.
so, concluding, I thought that the whole thing could be done with a refrigeration dryer and filters. It turns out, however, that refrigeration dryers can only partially dry the air, and for really dry air, an adsorption dryer is needed.

this is exactly what the user name said, but I had to digest it

 

[user name]

Any one here besides John Wilson using a Kaeser air compressor? I just got a flyer from American Dental that theyre now distributors. Id love to have their small Air Tower. I dont know the price...yet. Should hear back Monday

 

[JMN]

Any one here besides John Wilson using a Kaeser air compressor? I just got a flyer from American Dental that theyre now distributors. Id love to have their small Air Tower. I dont know the price...yet. Should hear back Monday

With a name like Air Tower, you are going to have to put some model planes near or suspended around/over it.

 

[user name]

With a name like Air Tower, you are going to have to put some model planes near or suspended around/over it.

Wont be happening this year. Between home remodeling and new delivery car, this fool and his money have been parted.

 

[JMN]

Wont be happening this year. Between home remodeling and new delivery car, this fool and his money have been parted.

Ahh, yes. The Red Sea in the ledger.

 

[user name]

Heres one for ya. Im looking for validation of my air. I cant find any in line trace moisture monitor monitor. I would think they must exist, no?

 

[JMN]

Probably need to look at clean room supplier stuff. Some thing like class 1000 or lower would need that. If airlines were allowed at all.

 

[user name]

I might have a problem.

My system is good. Quincy 60 gallon 5hp 2 stage, Tsunami auto drain, oil/water separator, refrigerated dryer, two desiccant dryers, a filter, and another micro desiccant dryer/filter.

Last week I just added another refrigerated dryer in the line up. I had it on hand from an older set up, so I just did some service and decided to use it.

After getting the flyer from American Dental showing the Kaeser Air Towers, I got a renewed case of air envy. Why stop at a screw drive Im thinking. After consideration and review, I think Im going to use my current basement monster as a back up and replace it with an Atlas Copco scroll. 54db class 0/1 air. Thats the end of the line as far as I can see it. Sure wish I would have done this first rather than working my way towards it.

Yes, @JMN. That red sea. Its a deduction though.

 

[JMN]

I might have a problem.

My system is good. Quincy 60 gallon 5hp 2 stage, Tsunami auto drain, oil/water separator, refrigerated dryer, two desiccant dryers, a filter, and another micro desiccant dryer/filter.

Last week I just added another refrigerated dryer in the line up. I had it on hand from an older set up, so I just did some service and decided to use it.

After getting the flyer from American Dental showing the Kaeser Air Towers, I got a renewed case of air envy. Why stop at a screw drive Im thinking. After consideration and review, I think Im going to use my current basement monster as a back up and replace it with an Atlas Copco scroll. 54db class 0/1 air. Thats the end of the line as far as I can see it. Sure wish I would have done this first rather than working my way towards it.

Yes, @JMN. That red sea. Its a deduction though.

Deduction don't equal free. Ask if they have a sale yearly and wait.