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    Production Questions for AG Milling machines

    Discussion in 'Amann Girrbach North America' started by DentalFusion, May 23, 2018.

    1. DentalFusion
      Relaxed

      DentalFusion New Member Full Member

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      I own an Amann Girrbach Motion2 Milling machine. The Straumann Version M-Series


      I have the following technical questions – I know some of the answers will vary from user to user. It's just to have a measure to calculate production costs for my business


      1. For the AG Zirconia milling burs.

      a. The expected amount of Zr units that can be milled with the various burs before it needs to be replaced?

      i. 2mm

      ii. 1mm

      iii. 0.6mm

      iv. 0.35mm

      b. The expected lifespan of the Titanium burs set

      c. The Expected lifespan of the ceramic bur set

      2. For the zirconia blanks how many units can one expect to nest per disk if you pack it quite close?

      a. 98mm

      b. D shape or 71mm?

      3. The expected lifespan of the spindle and how much it cost to replace?


      You guys should surely have some of these values somewhere. Maybe part of a sales presentation or just your own production figures. Even a recommended value will do because I don’t want to drive my machine to the ground.


      It would be greatly appreciated if you can assist me with these questions.

      W
       
    2. Wainwright
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      Wainwright Member Full Member

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      I heard the Straumann version of the Motion 2 used a different CAM than AG's Match 2. Something based off of Dentalwings?

      CAM and strategies will change tool life and everything else quite a bit.

      I always averaged about 18 to 22 units per 98mm disc of ZR, more molars fewer units
       
    3. DentalFusion
      Relaxed

      DentalFusion New Member Full Member

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      Hi Wainwright,

      Thank you for the reply.
      Yes, they have some other software version. I don't know what exactly the software is loaded, its part of the package. And, yes DWOS.

      I read your welcome part. Working now at formlabs. . . I am struggling to work out a production costing on my machines. I get a lot of people who just tell you what a model should cost but no one has a guide where you have a spreadsheet type of guide.
      Some formula or series of calculations in excel where one can estimate what a basic model can cost.
      Raw material cost > Wastage > Consumables used to clean a part > charged per weight/volume > cost per weight\volume. . . Just try to make some sense of the frenzy of the printing business. Do you guys had time to think about something like this and are willing to share your experience?

      The same goes for the lifespan of the burs... The only accurate way of determining the unit count is to date the burs and count until you start to get chipped margins or some detail loss. Started a new set today and will share my experience as soon as I have 3 sets replaced or 3 burs per size.
      Good luck Printing and Milling creating smiles.
      w
       
    4. Wainwright
      Amused

      Wainwright Member Full Member

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      Thank you. Yes, good questions. I learn more every day at Formlabs, its an amazing group of talented people. My point is I only have some answers for you today.

      Something that has been very helpful for me to understand print cost and times is that Formlabs Preform. Preform is our nesting or "cam" software and its totally free, import some of your parts, pick the material you want to print in and if you look at the bottom of the screen it calculates print time and how much resin is used. For example, I just have a test print in the software and the Grey resin selected it's calculating it will take 11.69 mL to print this job, 1,000 mL or 1 L of Grey is $149 in cost. If you do some pretty simple math $149 divided by 1,000 it gives you a cost of $0.149 per mL in cost, so my test print that will take 11.69 mL in Grey resin will cost me $1.74.

      Here's a link to download Preform, Mac or PC: https://formlabs.com/tools/preform/

      Lastly cleaning parts all you need is isopropyl alcohol, I just did some quick math but our Form wash holds just over two gallons and its about $25 a gallon. Really rough math here, but we claim to get 70 FULL build plates out of one fresh Form wash, that's about $50 in alcohol for 70 builds... so let's just say it's about a buck a build plate. If you're doing occlusal guards, you can easily get 7 guards on one plate and clean them all for about a dollar. Again rough math so don't hold me to it.

      Heres where I found the information:
      https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Isopr...30&sr=8-3&keywords=1+gallon+isopropyl+alcohol
      https://formlabs.com/tools/wash-cure/

      Lastly Amann Girrbach tool cost. It's pretty easy typically in AG Match 2 they give you how many "hours" each tool can run, on their new generation of machines I believe its about 15 minutes a unit in zirconia. The tricky part is not every tool is used an equal amount, for example, the 2.0 mm roughing tool could be used for 10 of the 15 min mill time. You can do some pretty rough math though if you can figure out how many units a tool does in the allotted time, I'd do this by having a piece of paper next to the mill when you load in a fresh set of tools. If you mark off you roughly got X units out of the 2.0 mm tool, let's just use 100 as an example, and the tool cost $50 that's 0.50 cents a unit just for that tool. you need to get that same information for all four of your milling tools and there you have it!

      I use to have a bunch of this information in spreadsheets when I worked for CAP but I left it behind.

      Okay, back to it!
       
    5. Amann Girrbach

      Amann Girrbach Member Sponsors Full Member

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      Hello DF,
      I'll get back to you witht all the answers, thank you for the questions, good ones!
       

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