Printer for Models and Trays

[AmsterDan]

Good day all!

Currently orienting myself in the mad world of printers. I will need it to print mostly models (including implant models) and trays; completely understanding that there may be many choices. However, what I am looking for more specifically will hopefully help narrow that list down a little. If you want to know more specifics, let me know please!

- Will be used in a low production lab, meaning I want:
- A more accurate printer, not necessarily a cheap printer. In case there is a 'bang for the buck' printer that is accurate and less expensive, great!
- Speed is nice, but not the priority. (No terribly slow printer either though).
- One that produces models without course swirls and lines.
- Ultimately one that is as maintenance free as possible with regards to switching between materials; is there such a thing to begin with?
- One that is 'open' in terms of choice in materials. (I dislike the idea of being limited in choice).

That's it for now. I may edit or add to this post in which case I will use an asterisk.

Thanks in advance!

 

[doug]

Asiga

 

[mightymouse]

Asiga is great, fast but expensive for just models. I would recommend Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K. The 8K is overkill but the photos show just how little the layers are visible if at all.
Mini is $400 and the 8K is on sale for $700. There as open as open can be. They have a slicing program called Chitubox. When you add your specific printer they list all the resin and settings that are most current.
I just confirmed with a representative from Dreve that Dreve’s forodent resins (all) have been validated for the Sonic 4k XL. Everything from dentures to models and in between.

 

[vdH]

Rapidshape is still at the top of production machines in europe

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Asiga MAX

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Asiga is great, fast but expensive for just models. I would recommend Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K. The 8K is overkill but the photos show just how little the layers are visible if at all.
Mini is $400 and the 8K is on sale for $700. There as open as open can be. They have a slicing program called Chitubox. When you add your specific printer they list all the resin and settings that are most current.
I just confirmed with a representative from Dreve that Dreve’s forodent resins (all) have been validated for the Sonic 4k XL. Everything from dentures to models and in between.

Will they (Dreve) put that in writing?

Their compatibility chart shows different. The IFU doesnt specify the Phrozen either.

https://dentamidshop.dreve.de/daten/enu_d770321_fotodent_newsflyer_englisch.pdf?expired=1653396142

Asiga, Sprintray, Whipmix/Ackurretta are all solid.

 

[mightymouse]

Will they (Dreve) put that in writing?

Sorry if the pictures are out of order

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Will they (Dreve) put that in writing?

Their compatibility chart shows different. The IFU doesnt specify the Phrozen either.

https://dentamidshop.dreve.de/daten/enu_d770321_fotodent_newsflyer_englisch.pdf?expired=1653396142

Sorry if the pictures are out of order

Good info.

Sounds like though you need a SPECIAL printer or modification from Dreve to be on a validated system. DO you know the cost difference between the regular printer vs the Dreve version?

From their FAQ Page:
I bought a Phrozen Sonic XL 4K 2022. Can I have it converted to the Dreve version?
Yes! All Phrozen Sonic XL 4K 2022 units can be modified to our standard by us at Dreve. Please contact us for an individual offer!

 

[mightymouse]

This is a gray area. The rep told me that their version has their resin profiles. Not sure if that is a scare tactic to push you closer to buy the (most likely) higher priced printer. Here is an exchange we had on that.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Like other printers, it sounds like it is mainly a build plate upgrade. It seems the biocompatible resins require a different material... I know Formlabs and SprintRay offer different build plates for some of the dental specific materials.

 

[AmsterDan]

Speaking of resins. Does anyone know by any chance what the Straumann printers are like and whether 3rd party resins can be used with them? Their website has a serious lack of information on their equipment.

 

[AmsterDan]

Another questions I'd like to add: What makes models warp? I've seen full arch milled/printed models that when put together, were teeter tottering from one quadrant to the other. What is your experience with 'warpage'?

 

[Sda36]

Speaking of resins. Does anyone know by any chance what the Straumann printers are like and whether 3rd party resins can be used with them? Their website has a serious lack of information on their equipment.

I believe I was told by rep that Straumann printer is Rapidshape.

 

[Bonita5]

I believe I was told by rep that Straumann printer is Rapidshape.

yes it is!

 

[Bonita5]

yes it is! Its just white labelled for Straumann

 

[Datguypeter]

Asiga is great, fast but expensive for just models. I would recommend Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K. The 8K is overkill but the photos show just how little the layers are visible if at all.
Mini is $400 and the 8K is on sale for $700. There as open as open can be. They have a slicing program called Chitubox. When you add your specific printer they list all the resin and settings that are most current.
I just confirmed with a representative from Dreve that Dreve’s forodent resins (all) have been validated for the Sonic 4k XL. Everything from dentures to models and in between.

Are the Keystone resins approved for the 8k version or do we have to wait?

 

[mightymouse]

Currently they only have resins approved for the Sonic Mini and Sonic XL printers. Phrozen moves much faster than the rest of the printer companies when providing new versions or upgraded versions. I think it’s more of a bottom line issue for Keystone to use maybe two of the more popular printers as opposed to every one Phrozen makes.

 

[Datguypeter]

Currently they only have resins approved for the Sonic Mini and Sonic XL printers. Phrozen moves much faster than the rest of the printer companies when providing new versions or upgraded versions. I think it’s more of a bottom line issue for Keystone to use maybe two of the more popular printers as opposed to every one Phrozen makes.

I see thanks

Also do you have any recommendations for denture base resins for temps that work with the mini 4k ? I saw one of your comments saying you were waiting for Keystone but sadly they havent delivered anything in that regard

 

[mightymouse]

I see thanks

Also do you have any recommendations for denture base resins for temps that work with the mini 4k ? I saw one of your comments saying you were waiting for Keystone but sadly they havent delivered anything in that regard

That my biggest headache at the moment. There are denture resins that work with the Sonic mini 4K but with some exclaimers. Power Resins work but are certified only in Europe. They told me they have filed for FDA approval but the process is not complete. Another company from Germany is Pro3dure. Spoke with the American rep and said that they have validated their resins for use with Phrozen printer (Sonic XL). They submitted their work to Phrozen to sign off but no response. I was besides myself. Phrozen really dropped the ball. Emailed multiple times giving them the reps number to contact but it’s been two months and nothing. On a funny side note I also informed Phrozen through emails about Power Resin denture base working with the Sonic Mini 4K as they did not list them as validated resin nor knew about it. Several weeks later they change their marking page for their dental printer and literally copy and paste the image Power Resins has of their denture. Sometimes I feel like I do more research then the Phrozen team.

 

[Datguypeter]

That my biggest headache at the moment. There are denture resins that work with the Sonic mini 4K but with some exclaimers. Power Resins work but are certified only in Europe. They told me they have filed for FDA approval but the process is not complete. Another company from Germany is Pro3dure. Spoke with the American rep and said that they have validated their resins for use with Phrozen printer (Sonic XL). They submitted their work to Phrozen to sign off but no response. I was besides myself. Phrozen really dropped the ball. Emailed multiple times giving them the reps number to contact but it’s been two months and nothing. On a funny side note I also informed Phrozen through emails about Power Resin denture base working with the Sonic Mini 4K as they did not list them as validated resin nor knew about it. Several weeks later they change their marking page for their dental printer and literally copy and paste the image Power Resins has of their denture. Sometimes I feel like I do more research then the Phrozen team.

Thats too bad. I don't want to spend 10k just to print garbage temps. Hopefully Keystone does something.
Have you tried or heard anything about the fotodent denture thats now approved for the sonic xl