Prime Zirconia bridge fracturing

  • Thread starter Brett Hansen CDT
  • Start date
Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
102
We did a three unit implant bridge twice. We used Ivoclar's Prime B1, Ivoclar's PM7 to mill, and Ivoclar's S1 furnace to sinter. It fractured both times. Any ideas as to what may have caused it. After the first fracture, we thought it cooled too fast during layering. Then it happened again after we took more precautions. We have done many monolithic bridges with no issues. I attached a picture so you can see how I nested it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3911.jpg
    IMG_3911.jpg
    91.9 KB · Views: 101
  • IMG_3912.jpg
    IMG_3912.jpg
    210.8 KB · Views: 90
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
9,204
Reaction score
1,411
xg7g91m02d201.png
 
J

J Pierce

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
293
Reaction score
64
We have has a few Prime bridges fail as well, but have broken after seating?
 
G

grantoz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,690
Reaction score
366
is it always bridges
 
Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
102
I talked to a tech at Ivoclar. We are going to slow down the cooling stage while its being layered. Was dropping at 50C now its 25C
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,867
Reaction score
453
What is the temp of the oven once you take the bridge out of the oven.
Brett, show your programs for firing zirconia, bis - glaze cycles, this has to be a cooling problem.
Assuming your using peg putty and nothing has changed with your techniques.
Sorry, can't help on the sintering side.
 
Last edited:
RCKSTR

RCKSTR

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
417
Reaction score
128
I had tons of Prime cracking, in the lab during seating, but especially on insertion at the DR's. I had one doc tell me 2 cracked on cementation, no adjustments at all. Every restoration is meticulously inspected during QC before it leaves. After about a dozen failures, we stopped using prime completely. Have never had that issue before or after using Prime.

We were also using a PM7 as well Roland mills and Ivoclar furnaces.
 
G

grantoz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,690
Reaction score
366
i had my concerns with the 650mpa layer
 
G

grantoz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,690
Reaction score
366
brett if you are going to layer the Zirconia like that why not just use a stronger Zi .the prime Zi is designed for micro layers at best. Use prettau 2 dispersive it still has good trans and is 1100mpa all the way from margin to incisal.
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
6,201
Reaction score
1,122
Not to pile on, Brett, but Winner for grantoz post. I'm not to familiar with dispersive, but it's almost defeating the purpose of what Prime was meant for, fcz alone. Maybe micro layering, but if you want to layer, use a gradient in color, not in strength, to more aggressively layer as needed, like prettau or HT+
Multilayer etc?
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
5,370
Reaction score
817
Are you doing the 3 hour or 9 hour sintering cycle? I do a lot of Prime, very large stuff...including All-on-X never had it fracture. Ivoclar S1 with Roland Mills. However, all implants and bridges go on the 9 hour sintering cycle, not the 3 hour fast cycle.

-For the Original Poster, I think the fracture is happening during the milling (a undercut, or tool pathway issue) but it's not breaking off all the way and not noticed till you sinter it....where the fracture propagates all the way. Just a thought at first glance.
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
6,201
Reaction score
1,122
I was going to edit my post to include that his main issue was on the pontic, away from the layered Inc 1/2. We got a bit off track, but maybe also helpful? Change the pontic sprue position?

I guess I'm still concerned when it had a reputation of a Prime Line, that Ivoclar figured out with sintering time and temps, as well as nesting to make up for that. Was, is that a transitional zone that isn't blended as thoroughly as the zircoina or technology allow? I guess it's individual labs peace of mind and experience call.
 
Last edited:
DentalDen

DentalDen

Member
Full Member
Messages
26
Reaction score
1
brett if you are going to layer the Zirconia like that why not just use a stronger Zi .the prime Zi is designed for micro layers at best. Use prettau 2 dispersive it still has good trans and is 1100mpa all the way from margin to incisal.
I agree
I’d use argen HT+ It’s 1250mpa ,, especially when layering it doesn’t make sense to mill in the expensive Ivoclar crap to then layer it 🧐
I have colour problems with prime so don’t use it now
No crack issue tho but we slow cool everything
 
Contraluz

Contraluz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,403
Reaction score
275
I have colour problems with prime so don’t use it now
I have a whole thread, here on DLN, about my color issues with Prime. No cracking, though. What did you experience?

I’d use argen HT+ It’s 1250mpa
If you are going to layer, anyway, I'd agree.

 
Patrick Coon

Patrick Coon

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
565
Hi Brent,

Strength should not be an issue, you have the vast majority of the restoration (and especially the connector in the 3y, 1100+ MPa area of the disk.

How are you finishing the material (before and after sintering)? What type of rotary instruments (burs, disks, stones, etc)?

When layering your rate of rise should be quite slow (~30-40C/minute) and you long term cooling should be quite low (oven open at <550C or about 10 minutes).
 
F

FullPartial

Member
Full Member
Messages
90
Reaction score
16
I had tons of Prime cracking, in the lab during seating, but especially on insertion at the DR's. I had one doc tell me 2 cracked on cementation, no adjustments at all. Every restoration is meticulously inspected during QC before it leaves. After about a dozen failures, we stopped using prime completely. Have never had that issue before or after using Prime.

We were also using a PM7 as well Roland mills and Ivoclar furnaces.
RCKSTR what bike is in your Avatar photo. Looks sick, at least from the view of 400x600 pixels
 
Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,047
Reaction score
102
Thanks Patrick. I believe we slowed down the heating rise and that fixed our issue.
 
Sda36

Sda36

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
819
Reaction score
93
Hi Brent,

Strength should not be an issue, you have the vast majority of the restoration (and especially the connector in the 3y, 1100+ MPa area of the disk.

How are you finishing the material (before and after sintering)? What type of rotary instruments (burs, disks, stones, etc)?

When layering your rate of rise should be quite slow (~30-40C/minute) and you long term cooling should be quite low (oven open at <550C or about 10 minutes).
Thanks Patrick, could you expand a bit more on conservative cooling cycles for Zr? All I've heard for years is that "you Can't slow cool enough." Or over-slow cool. I have presently on my Zubler furnaces a cool rate of 25-40 degrees / min and an opening temp of 250 degrees C that matches my Zubler sintering oven for opening temperature. ( Depending on structure and size) This makes for some Really Long Cycle times. Are you really comfortable, across the board with a near 500 degree Celsius opening temp.? I realize you can also extend cooling by having a 10 minute opening time at least on my Zubler furnaces. Looking forward to your thoughts on this, it's a big thing given an Emax cycle being typically 25 min or less.

Thanks for your time and input Patrick!
 

Similar threads

Brett Hansen CDT
Replies
16
Views
1K
Getoothachopper
Getoothachopper
M
Replies
11
Views
1K
grantoz
G
Marcusthegladiator CDT
Replies
6
Views
1K
Patrick Coon
Patrick Coon
Brett Hansen CDT
Replies
25
Views
4K
Getoothachopper
Getoothachopper
Top Bottom