Priceing a FCZ

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I have the 2010 LMT list of average prices: pressed lithium disilicate 186, milled lithium 172, and Monolithic Zirconium 178. I dont know when the 2011 list will come out, but how do you feel prices have trended? I have been seeing invoices from another lab in my area that are 99 for FCZ, and one of my best accounts said hes been getting calls to do some FCZ (unknown brand) at around 60 bucks. Water finds its level eventually...automation, materials, competition, branding all play their part, but as an esthetic oriented lab selling value- not price, where does FCZ fit? How do you price it? Not just 'what' is your price, but 'how'.
 
Mark Jackson

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I have the 2010 LMT list of average prices: pressed lithium disilicate 186, milled lithium 172, and Monolithic Zirconium 178. I dont know when the 2011 list will come out, but how do you feel prices have trended? I have been seeing invoices from another lab in my area that are 99 for FCZ, and one of my best accounts said hes been getting calls to do some FCZ (unknown brand) at around 60 bucks. Water finds its level eventually...automation, materials, competition, branding all play their part, but as an esthetic oriented lab selling value- not price, where does FCZ fit? How do you price it? Not just 'what' is your price, but 'how'.

The race to the bottom ALWAYS ends in a firery crash. I have seen FCZ for $59

Shameful.
 
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No doubt Mark. I had originally priced my FCZ at 150 as an intro with the expectation that after the first of the year i would be changing several things price-wise, and the FCZ would be 170. Ive been doing some, and getting very favorable feed back. Whats not to like...strong and metal free. Not everyone, or all materials look that great, but I think Im giving posterior PFMs a real run for their money. So...why not charge as much? But just like a major chain store, others cut price but make phat stacks o' cash because of volume. Unless a boutique lab changes their entire business plan/style, offering a PFZ at a low price doesnt seem (to me) to fit. Reason being...for each PFZ youre doing at a small margin, youre not doing a PFM at potentially a greater margin.

So, the antithesis of my question..is the industry forcing the small guy to be a factory, or can we still 'serve' our clients with value AND a full menu? In order to offer custom service and cultivate a relationship rather than just delivering 'parts', we need to get paid.
 
CatamountRob

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User, I think the key is to make sure your profit margin is consistent, then it dosen't matter whether they choose a PFM, Bruxzir or full gold crown.
 
corona

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you are so right catamountrob......keeping the profit margin at a decent level is key , By the way .... whats everyones MINIMAL profit margin percentage ???? my bare bones minimum would be 34% but i try and keep it much higher .
 
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Calling FCZ Bruxzir is only helping Glidewell out and thats what the Doc's get hooked on then thats what they want.
 
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I have the 2010 LMT list of average prices: pressed lithium disilicate 186, milled lithium 172, and Monolithic Zirconium 178. I dont know when the 2011 list will come out, but how do you feel prices have trended? I have been seeing invoices from another lab in my area that are 99 for FCZ, and one of my best accounts said hes been getting calls to do some FCZ (unknown brand) at around 60 bucks. Water finds its level eventually...automation, materials, competition, branding all play their part, but as an esthetic oriented lab selling value- not price, where does FCZ fit? How do you price it? Not just 'what' is your price, but 'how'.

Hey guy's, You'll see next year posts like "how to find a good dental ceramist who can do porcelain??" I told you so this milling machines that you investing in worth nothing when it comes to dentists who arguing over 5 cents in a billing statement. The world is't that big,isn't it? I've seen so far $40-$50 lab advertises for FZC's. Good luck!
Ed.
 
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Ive decided that FCZ isnt something I would put in my mouth, so Ive shared my opinions with my accounts and they say they appreciate my input and are not going to do them as well. E.max is the most requested, and PFZ is nudging out PFM for the conservative preppers.
 
shane williams

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I would like to see are FCZ go up in price. There are other labs in the area charging $99 so it puts it into perspective. When did getting a superior product(stronger than pfm's, and e-max, more aesthetic than gold) get bottom $$$? We charge about $20 less for FCZ's than a pfm without a metal charge. So dr's are getting a what I feel is a better product at a cheeper price, and the way the buisness is heading thanks to large manufactoring companies like Glidewell who basically set the price everyone is having to compete with them.
 
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Glidewell only sets the price if you are competing on price. Im pushing whats best. It costs more cash, but its good value and who in their right mind is opting for quick, compromised esthetics when it comes to something as important as teeth??? Ive got some expensive equipment sitting here, but my decision to purchase it isnt going to sway my judgement on what Id put in my mouth...and thats the test I go by. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Ill use my digital tool to make copings, but no FCZ.
 
Rex Kramer

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..... Ill use my digital tool to make copings, but no FCZ.

I dont know if I'd go that far.... I just did my first FCZ/LavaPlus under a partial (waiting for it to get back from CAP) and if it looks like the others they've done and fits as I expect it will...this will be hands down a superior restoration for the situation IMHO...

rex
--
 
CatamountRob

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When did getting a superior product(stronger than pfm's, and e-max, more aesthetic than gold) get bottom $$$? We charge about $20 less for FCZ's than a pfm without a metal charge. So dr's are getting a what I feel is a better product at a cheeper price

When did a mass produced, machine made product sell at a higher price than a hand made one? Can you think of a single thing?
You've got to overcome the perception that machine made, equals "cheap". It won't happen, the price will continue to decline.
 
JohnWilson

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I use glidewell as a barometer on price, I do not try and be glidewell.

I am more concerned with the % of the selling price which relates to profit. As long as I can make that number thats a viable product for me to produce. If I can't I don't offer it.

Where the industry is headed as it relates to cad/cam quadrant dentistry, the big boys will be happy to work on smaller margins and push volume, out sourcing labs and small labs will struggle to get their piece of the pie. Your work has to be FAR SUPERIOR to demand higher fees. With the design libraries, the playing field is getting way more level customer service will be your best tool next to your mouse.

All you tech haters or old school brush building ceramists best start thinking of contingency plans.
 
shane williams

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Glidewell is everywhere and advertising everywhere. So when Dr's see $99 fcz they don't care about the labs profit. They want $99 fcz. I'm not creating the market for fcz, dr's want the product. We have to supply that product. So if you're not milling your outsourcing and paying $40 a coping. Then you still have to finish so your profit goes down. I'm not a fan of the fcz, but I'd rather not lose accounts so we sell them. You might not put it your mouth, but that doesn't matter cuz the Dr and patient decide what they want.
 
shane williams

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I mass produce gold and e-max wax copings. The same procedure that it takes to do fcz I do for all my full contour crowns. Does that diminish the value of gold and e-max? I look at digital tech as a tool, period. My point of superior was strength when compared to pfms and e-max. I know the price is going to decline, that was my point earlier about wanting to be able to charge more.
 
RileyS

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So why wouldn't you want to have a fcz in your mouth? I did one to my shade today and it looked every bit as good as a pfm. Compare that to all the wear tests, and the fact that no chipping will happen...the only thing left to worry about is longevity. So far we have 1000's in the mouth for the last 3.5 years and from my knowledge less than five single unit remakes and two bridges. But I won't count the bridges because they come from our most problematic doctor.
As far as them all looking the same, when I do one start to finish they look like a diamond compared to the dirt clods I've seen, and I can do them faster than what my labs fcz guy is doing them. So just because its done by a machine doesn't mean the result is completely independent of the tech, it's completely dependent on who is working it.
 
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Here's two ways of looking at pricing your FCZ.
Labs can buy Bruxzir disk to mill/ buy Bruxzir's from milling labs and follow Glidewells lead of selling by volume to make a profit...... and try to sell the better $99.00 Bruxzir than the other Bruxzir labs in you area & labs using UPS .... Remember, Glidewell. etc- other large labs will always be your competition whether you sell at $99.00 or slightly higher. Just try explaining to a new account or older account why you charge ? when Glidewell is charging $99.00 for the same material they make and sell to other labs and doctors.. I personally think its stupid to sell fcz at $99.00. A lab selling fcz at $99.00 is one phone call away from losing work to another $99.00/$89.00 lab, and other large labs like that with even lower prices..
If your selling FCZ at $99.00 , aren't you saying your work is just as good as Glidewell's... if you charge less than $99.00,,,, what does that say about your work.. it comes from China ? or you use a very cheap zirconia..
Second way of looking at it. Labs can use other brands of zirconia that look better, and distinguish yourself as a lab that sells a higher end monolithic zirconia. This may mean you need to use a higher end milling lab like CAP and a few other milling labs to receive superior looking FCZ. Another thought is sintering your own crowns to get more consistent shading inhouse.
I'm not trying to knock Bruxzir, its a good material, and its only as good as the lab that mills/sinters/colors it, and the way its adjusted and stained in the lab. The same holds true for other brands of zirconia.
Another option to think about is the use of pre-colored zirconia which doesn't turn white when adjusted.
To add to what John said about the fcz haters and the SmileLine brush lovers, you better be damn good at using your brush and start looking for more higher end accounts, or learn how to make mono crowns look the best they can while zirconia keeps improving, and other monolithic materials evolve and take over pfms..
Someone like me grew up in this business when doctors were afraid to use all ceramic materials because of higher rates of breakage. Now those same doctors like the idea of material that are very unlikely to break or chip. This business has evolved into the digital revolution /cad/cam all ceramics, low wear, stronger materials, (emax-fcz) lava ulitimate, at a lower cost to produce. We now have a choice of becoming the higher end pfm lab or the middle to higher end mono lab that does it all. The $99.00 FCZ lab can have a price war until Glidewell and other labs run you out of business.. Its going to happen.
I saw the monolithic crown being the lab of the immediate future in 2008. For those of you fighting the losing battle over FCZ, zirconia layered, and emax in your lab, your losing valuable time, and possibly losing accounts as you hide your head in the sand. The hand-writing was on the wall in 2008 if your eyes were open, and now is the time to choose what road to follow as many old timers close their doors......... Choose wisely, it could cost you your business just as fast as FCZ has taken over the dropping percentages of pfms being done in the last 3 years.
 
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ParkwayDental

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We are a true blue Bruxzir lab and milling center, and for our preference we have the best results with the Brixzir material. I've sent some samples out to some of the heavy hitters in our industry and they said we produce the best Bruxzir they have ever seen. So with that in mind we refuse to follow the marketing of the $99.00 Bruxzir crown or prices lower because we strive to be better. To be honest we charge $130.00 to a doc now we just raised our fees on everything. And even though all the docs see the low advertisement prices everywhere, we are freaking slammed with BruxZirs. You can charge whatever you want if you put out a great product the docs will not bitch and complain about the price, hell and I might be wrong but isn't the insurance company paying them more to do an all ceramic crown? So why should we lower our prices to put more money into the docs pocket, not us. We will follow the coat tails of Jim Glidewell till the day it crashes and burns because it works for us but we will not lower our prices!!!!
 
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Tyler, your gaining the reputation of making the best Bruxzirs of any lab I've seen. Having used your lab for Bruxzir, I must say no lab can come close to matching your quality with Bruxzir. Your work is so nice, I don't even consider those Bruxzirs ... lol
There are a lot of labs out there that put out nasty looking fcz and give a bad rap for the labs that know what there doing..
 
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