PrecisoCAD first impressions vs. 3shape vs. DentalDings

[gatorteeth87]

So Jensen finally got me rolling with the Preciso software package for our Lava ST scanner and VHF mill and I successfully scanned, designed and milled two crowns on it yesterday/last night, figured I would throw in my first impressions. Especially since I think I gave Jensen a little heat on here a while ago about taking too long to live up to their promises

First things first, the exocad based scan and design is MUCH better than DentalDings. Scanning is faster, less fickle and the meshing is at least five times quicker than it was in DW. I found the design tools to be a bit limiting but since I have never used ExoCAD before, I should probably hold off judgement until I have had more time with it as I am sure there are lots of tricks that I am not aware of--but right off the bat, I wasn't able to pick up on it quite as quickly as 3shape. Regardless, it is light years ahead of DentalWings. Wow, I have hardly touched this scanner in months because DW was so prohibitive to use/flaky.

The CAM software is completely different and threw me off at first. Setting pins is a little futile compared to the stupid simple VHF software and importing 3shape with STL, it has me manually draw the margin in the CAM software, which is something I am not used to. More work overall I think but the end result is worth it. One other thing I noticed is that I don't think the mill chose the older 2mm tool to rough-in the crowns before it moved to a newer 2mm for pre-finishing. This was a nice feature that was part of an update on my original mill software to save some $$ on tools.

Whether due to the higher resolution of the scanner, or the CAM software's extra attention to margin milling strategy--the crowns had exceptional marginal adaptation. Much nicer than I am used to with my 3Shape and the same mill. Also, intaglio is very clean and accurate. Looks more like the die and less like a big bubble.

A little early to say for sure but so far, I am very pleased. I think Jensen deserves a solid plug for them from me. Standby for pics.

 

[DMC]

Getting away from MentalDings was a good move.

I hope it was not too late for them to "save the ship"?

 

[gatorteeth87]

Agreed. I figured they could use some positive feedback

 

[Bentchase]

I have been leaning heavily toward their, Jensen's, product. Being OPEN is a huge sell and reading previous posts, THAT seemed to be their criticism. Now that that is resolved AND I get access to the 3M product line.
A couple of questions.
Does exocad allow me to design soft tissue?
How does the jensens HT Zr look?

All in all how do people like working with jensens set up? Happy?
Big investment, sounds safe though. EXCITED!!!

 

[Sam-CAP]

Is it really open? I heard that there will be a dongle fee if you want to use anything other then 3M/Jensen materials.

 

[Bentchase]

That. Plus you If you are to buy the milling unit, you have to purchase a $5000 adapter in order to use the pucks instead of there squares/blocks. I think that the dongle fee is like $2-$3 per unit. That made me do a double take. Is there a perfect solution or is there compromise in every unit?

 

[Sevan P]

Is it really open? I heard that there will be a dongle fee if you want to use anything other then 3M/Jensen materials.

Sam Jesen sells the VHF mill for around 15k The Cheapest anyone is selling that mill, only because the fixture will only hold the LAVA material only, and the CAM software has the special fixture template as well. So you are stuck milling expensive LAVA material. To buy the 98mm disk fixture and swap it out whenever you need/want to cut 98mm ZR disk is such a hassle then you have to recalibrate it and make sure the tool spots are in the same x/y/z/a locations. You are better off buying a regular VHF mill and outsourcing your LAVA work. So the mill is open to any .stl file but closed to LAVA material only! FML! Almost went that route on our second mill....................but then didn't thanks god.

 

[Bentchase]

Sam Jesen sells the VHF mill for around 15k The Cheapest anyone is selling that mill, only because the fixture will only hold the LAVA material only, and the CAM software has the special fixture template as well. So you are stuck milling expensive LAVA material. To buy the 98mm disk fixture and swap it out whenever you need/want to cut 98mm ZR disk is such a hassle then you have to recalibrate it and make sure the tool spots are in the same x/y/z/a locations. You are better off buying a regular VHF mill and outsourcing your LAVA work. So the mill is open to any .stl file but closed to LAVA material only! FML! Almost went that route on our second mill....................but then didn't thanks god.

Also the Jensen Zr. Good info though and something seriously to consider.

 

[gatorteeth87]

So it was my understanding that the software was just going to be wide open, but after doing a little digging into my file order, most of my production files are in a .jensenSTL format. HMM.... Going to have to ask them about this, as I was never informed about a dongle fee for exporting .stl. Anyway, Jensen HT is decent, looks the same as the Lava ++ to me but I know that it is not as strong. We have been using it for a while now for our generic zirconia with no ill results. I suspect that it is the generic version of 3M zirconia that you can find on their website but that's only a hunch. I have also found a few suppliers who will sell cheaper zirconia to fit Lava frames but we haven't pursued them since the Jensen HT is plenty affordable.

 

[gatorteeth87]

I have been leaning heavily toward their, Jensen's, product. Being OPEN is a huge sell and reading previous posts, THAT seemed to be their criticism. Now that that is resolved AND I get access to the 3M product line.
A couple of questions.
Does exocad allow me to design soft tissue?
How does the jensens HT Zr look?

All in all how do people like working with jensens set up? Happy?
Big investment, sounds safe though. EXCITED!!!

So I have the simplest module available in their CAD package, so I cannot speak to the soft tissue design. Are you talking about for removable design? The whole package is very good, would recommend it for sure. The mill imports regular .stl and is very dependable/accurate. Have had this setup for roughly a year now with no major problems except for a few speed bumps in the beginning.

I would discuss the open-ness with Jensen for sure before you leap... we have 3Shape as well so it wasn't a huge ordeal for us but I was told it was open by my rep and now I am seeing otherwise. I will be calling them about that as well

This might help answer your exoCAD tissue questions http://wiki.exocad.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dental_CAD_Platform_Documentation_-_Index_of_topics

 

[ceram1]

So it was my understanding that the software was just going to be wide open, but after doing a little digging into my file order, most of my production files are in a .jensenSTL format. HMM.... Going to have to ask them about this, as I was never informed about a dongle fee for exporting .stl. Anyway, Jensen HT is decent, looks the same as the Lava ++ to me but I know that it is not as strong. We have been using it for a while now for our generic zirconia with no ill results. I suspect that it is the generic version of 3M zirconia that you can find on their website but that's only a hunch. I have also found a few suppliers who will sell cheaper zirconia to fit Lava frames but we haven't pursued them since the Jensen HT is plenty affordable.

I have the new software. Jensen stl has other data with it. Margin line, material info ect. There is literally an icon on the screen that says copy on it. You can choose scan files, part files or both. They are automatically sent out to a folder as plain and simple .stl files.

 

[ceram1]

Sam Jesen sells the VHF mill for around 15k The Cheapest anyone is selling that mill, only because the fixture will only hold the LAVA material only, and the CAM software has the special fixture template as well. So you are stuck milling expensive LAVA material. To buy the 98mm disk fixture and swap it out whenever you need/want to cut 98mm ZR disk is such a hassle then you have to recalibrate it and make sure the tool spots are in the same x/y/z/a locations. You are better off buying a regular VHF mill and outsourcing your LAVA work. So the mill is open to any .stl file but closed to LAVA material only! FML! Almost went that route on our second mill....................but then didn't thanks god.

So it was my understanding that the software was just going to be wide open, but after doing a little digging into my file order, most of my production files are in a .jensenSTL format. HMM.... Going to have to ask them about this, as I was never informed about a dongle fee for exporting .stl. Anyway, Jensen HT is decent, looks the same as the Lava ++ to me but I know that it is not as strong. We have been using it for a while now for our generic zirconia with no ill results. I suspect that it is the generic version of 3M zirconia that you can find on their website but that's only a hunch. I have also found a few suppliers who will sell cheaper zirconia to fit Lava frames but we haven't pursued them since the Jensen HT is plenty affordable.

Sam Jesen sells the VHF mill for around 15k The Cheapest anyone is selling that mill, only because the fixture will only hold the LAVA material only, and the CAM software has the special fixture template as well. So you are stuck milling expensive LAVA material. To buy the 98mm disk fixture and swap it out whenever you need/want to cut 98mm ZR disk is such a hassle then you have to recalibrate it and make sure the tool spots are in the same x/y/z/a locations. You are better off buying a regular VHF mill and outsourcing your LAVA work. So the mill is open to any .stl file but closed to LAVA material only! FML! Almost went that route on our second mill....................but then didn't thanks god.

The last I knew the puck holder they are going to sell is also designed to receive a frame holder plate. No recalibrating for converting. I would suspect if they release this product there will be fees to support the cam side. That would be a lot of work to keep up with customer wants and needs (demands) along the way. All of the software we have purchased this far from Jensen has been owned software with license dongles, no additional fees except upgrades outside the current version. We have one exception, lava 7, we were early adopters and have had the software for two years. We added another year license for third year. That is the only user fee or dongle I am currently aware of.

 

[Gru]

We have only the mill/cam from Jensen. For a small lab, the up front price was very affordable. Of course we recognized the "lock in" on materials, but if you do the math, it takes a lot of units to lose money over the more expensive "open" mills. In our case we intended to mill primarily wax. It speeds and simplifies work flow, is surprisingly accurate, is virtually maintenance free and is so much more affordable than any printer we looked at.

Yes, switching to pucks would be pricey. Something like $3k + a per mill fee of a rumored $2.50-$3 / unit. Not an option for us, but hey, we love the Jensen wax except for the red color. It's easy to adjust with a carbide, waxer or blade if needed, and firm enough not to distort when handled.

 

[gatorteeth87]

I have the new software. Jensen stl has other data with it. Margin line, material info ect. There is literally an icon on the screen that says copy on it. You can choose scan files, part files or both. They are automatically sent out to a folder as plain and simple .stl files.

I am going to have to look at this. Have just been getting started on the Exo and we are pretty busy so I am still doing most of my work on 3shape. When I browsed the file directories, I did find that some of the arch scans/die scans were regular .stl but that the restorations were saving in .jensenSTL. Are you saying there is an export .stl button somewhere?

 

[ceram1]

I am going to have to look at this. Have just been getting started on the Exo and we are pretty busy so I am still doing most of my work on 3shape. When I browsed the file directories, I did find that some of the arch scans/die scans were regular .stl but that the restorations were saving in .jensenSTL. Are you saying there is an export .stl button somewhere?

Right at the top of the main screen after cad is done. Copy sends the file to a folder called preciso convert on desk top after you select the files to be copied,ie scans or restorations.

 

[gatorteeth87]

Awesome, thanks! Going to try that out here in a min.

 

[Drizzt]

Everything is better from Dental Wings . I think even Sirona's 4.2 is better than that . I am a month away of never touching this f...g system ever again . Already waiting for my new Exocad scanner .

 

[Bentchase]

So I think that I have made my decision to go with the Jensen scanner with the hopes of the mill sooner than later. Dongel fees, I was told by rep, are to be $2.50 per crown ONLY if you choose to mill crowns from unsupported materials. I think that the jensen zirconia and the lava will be sufficient, however. Sept is a promo so if you are to buy this month, the dongle fee is waves for the life of your mill, making it a truley open system. Price is great, material looks good, software looks good, I'm all in.


I'm so excite!!!!

 

[gatorteeth87]

Congrats, I don't think you will be disappointed!

 

[Bentchase]

Congrats, I don't think you will be disappointed!

Thanks Gatorteeth! I'm excited to get into the digital realm!