"Poured" dentures

[araucaria]

There seems to be a growing trend for poured dentures, and in europe this is accounting for a very high percentage of the cases being processed. UK is behind, but the supply companies are pushing the systems and say there's no problems or issues that we should be worried about.
Has anyone who visits this site switched to pouring?
and are there any quality control issues that have arisen?
and what do their customers report?
and any issue with patients and monomer sensitivity?

 

[Dental Guy]

I have been using the pour method for quite some time now and everything is great with it. I have to say I don't use it for everthing, I still use injection moulding for my complete denture with high impact acrylic, but for partials and chromes I use the pour method everytime. Reports that I have seen and read and my own experiences with the pour method, there has been no monomer sensitivity issues (I only use acrylic that is designed for the pour techniques). The biggest advantages to the system is the reduced processing time, less mess, deflasking and finishing, the finish is outstanding. One note, to ensure a good bond between the denture teeth and acrylic, roughen the surface of the teeth and use an activation material to create a good chemical bond between the teeth and acrylic (I use vitacoll) but there are multiple materials on the market.

 

[TECHARTISAN]

Ive been pouring several years, my experience pretty much supports everything DGuy's said...

Id like to add that while there are certainly a number of lower grade pour acrylics....a couple Ive grown to love

Fricke Hi-I(mpact) comes in a pourable....great stuff

Lucitone Fas-Por+ is really nice as well but it thickens rapidly....can only pour 2 arches at a time.

a few issues Id mention...and your milage may vary in this....but...

its much easier to get a pink tooth with pourable....waxups must be clean with crisp gingival carve..if the wax flows smoothly onto the tooth the liquid resin will sometimes flow the tooth right out of its hydrocolloid "socket"....usually only a problem when a new waxer flame polishes AFTER his final carve.

Wax in the occlusals encourages pink teeth....as does being lax in your hydrocolloid conditioning/replacement. Fluid is less forgiving...

If you dont bench set sufficiently its quite easy to "bump" a tooth out of place as well.

If you dont bench set sufficiently, or your curing pot is too hot...the acrylic will draw up leaving a space you can slip a BPBlade under in the posterior....a remake in my book.

If you pour too quickly, youll get small air bubbles in the interproximals, and no one likes to "repair" a freshly made denture.

A really thick denture...think ridgeless lower...will sometimes show some porosity due to issues with exotherm during cure.

Last but not least....there is NO repack possible....so if you mis-sprue...cross your fingers and pray to the denture gods....

While pour can be a bit technique sensitive, it is less labor intensive in my opinion. Once youve adjusted your waxing style its really a great way to work. I usually have a case or two a day that I can remove the sprues and go straight to polish without any additional finishing.

While I prefer to take my time...In a pinch I can take a 2 arch case from impression, out the door in just under 2 hours.

All that said..I like pour...Id rather be injecting...but Im a few notches down the totem pole from those decisions.

 

[harry1]

Lucitone fas por works very well, gets my vote!

 

[AJEL]

I have been using pour for 80% of my work, the Fircke is one of the better pour materials but GC http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/NATURE-CRYL_POUR/index.phpis a great material as well , I use Pour Plus from Denplus - DenPlus - Membres as it is the most color stable. I use Perform from http://www.garreco.com/Garreco rotary.pdf as my second choice. I use a flask from Gareco that utalizes the model being held in plaster with the hydrocoloid holding the teeth. I agree that making your waxup super clean & sharp is paramont, the reason I like a red wax during a final waxup

Your favorite dentuer wax properties

in this forum.
You will be soaking the model prior to using hydrocoloid, take a towel & make sure around the teeth is bubble free, reduces those little balls between the teeth (and gives you one extra check for wax on the occlusion). When flasking a partial and having a single tooth use a silicone matrix around it and when reinserting the case in the hydrocoloid you shan't knock the tooth loose (pink tooth).
Watch your temperature in the pressure curing unit, Denplus & Perform (Hedent in EU) are more temperature dependent. Using a Dimetharylaate ethylene glycol as an activator rather than the Polymethacrylate-tert-Amyl commonly utilized. It is an ISO 9001:2000 CE material. using less Polymethacrylate-tert-Amyl means the yellow or brown that can occur with Fricke or Densply is avoided as well as (Amyl sensitivities, Amyl is also the activation in many heat cure materials.)
Resist using to much monomier. Don't cut the time short, and watch your temperature ea mfg has specific time/temp and best results need you to follow them. Dental Guy mentions bonding and roughing, I do that with all teeth all systems just don't trust I guess.
Yesterday I relined a Perform denture I did in 1989 and after pumice & polish the acrylic color still matched. If you trim a denture tooth pretty thin it is rather easy to place a tooth colored dab under the tooth before closing the flask and having a solid tooth color under one of those shells, including around implant or attachments, and with the fluid resin system I haven't bent an implant bar as can happen with injection & press pack. IMHO

 

[McCall Dentures]

Karl, I would stay far far away...


best,
ryan

 

[droberts]

I have been using pour for 80% of my work, the Fircke is one of the better pour materials but GC http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/NATURE-CRYL_POUR/index.phpis a great material as well , I use Pour Plus from Denplus - DenPlus - Membres as it is the most color stable. I use Perform from http://www.garreco.com/Garreco rotary.pdf as my second choice. I use a flask from Gareco that utalizes the model being held in plaster with the hydrocoloid holding the teeth. I agree that making your waxup super clean & sharp is paramont, the reason I like a red wax during a final waxup in this forum.
You will be soaking the model prior to using hydrocoloid, take a towel & make sure around the teeth is bubble free, reduces those little balls between the teeth (and gives you one extra check for wax on the occlusion). When flasking a partial and having a single tooth use a silicone matrix around it and when reinserting the case in the hydrocoloid you shan't knock the tooth loose (pink tooth).
Watch your temperature in the pressure curing unit, Denplus & Perform (Hedent in EU) are more temperature dependent. Using a Dimetharylaate ethylene glycol as an activator rather than the Polymethacrylate-tert-Amyl commonly utilized. It is an ISO 9001:2000 CE material. using less Polymethacrylate-tert-Amyl means the yellow or brown that can occur with Fricke or Densply is avoided as well as (Amyl sensitivities, Amyl is also the activation in many heat cure materials.)
Resist using to much monomier. Don't cut the time short, and watch your temperature ea mfg has specific time/temp and best results need you to follow them. Dental Guy mentions bonding and roughing, I do that with all teeth all systems just don't trust I guess.
Yesterday I relined a Perform denture I did in 1989 and after pumice & polish the acrylic color still matched. If you trim a denture tooth pretty thin it is rather easy to place a tooth colored dab under the tooth before closing the flask and having a solid tooth color under one of those shells, including around implant or attachments, and with the fluid resin system I haven't bent an implant bar as can happen with injection & press pack. IMHO

Have never heard of a bar being distorted with injection. Yes, with press pack. I feel labs are switching to the ( Poured ) method do to the decline
in good techs across the country. It takes more care in press pack as most of you know what I am referring to. I am bias due to inject everything,
not going to beat this to death as on previous post. Use what you feel works best for you.

 

[AJEL]

Have never heard of a bar being distorted with injection. Yes, with press pack. I feel labs are switching to the ( Poured ) method do to the decline
in good techs across the country. It takes more care in press pack as most of you know what I am referring to. I am bias due to inject everything,
not going to beat this to death as on previous post. Use what you feel works best for you. droberts

I pour 80%, I inject vinyl & some PMMA & some hybrid. I inject flexible both nylon & acetal. I press pack 1-2 cases per year but that is only when I need the super large flask, I have 1 set that you can put a hanau in side of (I still have a few palatal obturator & most orinasal fistula especially the hollow bulb tend to be big) . I use the pour as yes it saves me time but my pour system is not the stainless square, I use those for brux appliances and for duplicating every TMJ & Partial & most flipper models to process on & refit the case to the master. Following time, temp & pressure even on thick cases I rarely find porosity, ( I check regularly with probes & calibraion gauges),I record temps check & calibration in weekly log, I record batch numbers even to invoice for ea case record.
I have several Astron injections systems, I rather liked the Ivocap when I worked at Baasch DL in early 70's, I didn't think much of the early sucess system but I'm sure they have worked out the problems as (Densply is apt to use the industry as a proving ground and then start to get things better). I hope I'm not one of those in decline good techs across the country, I try to learn something every day, & watch my details, I let very few cases out that I'm not right with (but sometimes it happens).
Oh by the way even when you are very careful & pre pack vinyl or if injecting Flexite M.P (MP now that is some tough stuff stuff even finishing it it feels strong Flexite M.P.) you can bend a hader bar or milled bar with locators. IMHO
:wink:2

 

[DentureDude]

has anyone figured out how to do gingival tone with the pour technique?

 

[thetoothfarie]

its much easier to get a pink tooth with pourable....waxups must be clean with crisp gingival carve..if the wax flows smoothly onto the tooth the liquid resin will sometimes flow the tooth right out of its hydrocolloid "socket"....usually only a problem when a new waxer flame polishes AFTER his final carve.

Try 'gluing' the teeth in place with a dab of honey.

 

[XxJamesAxX]

Try 'gluing' the teeth in place with a dab of honey.

X2 on this tip... Just be sure not to use to much or the tooth will be out of placement.

 

[DentureDude]

ok.. sorry. i guess some techs here call it a "stain job".

has anyone figured out how to stain around the gingival areas with the pour technique?

thanks.

 

[DentureDude]

i could be confused.

when you guys say "stained" are you talking about staining the outside after its processed? thats something im not familiar with.

i guess what im asking is this:
can you salt and pepper the different colors to the gingival areas in the hydrocolloid and cure that before you pour? or does it fall off and/or get dislodged so it ends up in the wrong place when your done?

i understand there is only so much room in there and i have to be mindfull of that. (no trial pack) but can it be done?

anyone tried it?

 

[XxJamesAxX]

i could be confused.

when you guys say "stained" are you talking about staining the outside after its processed? thats something im not familiar with.

i guess what im asking is this:
can you salt and pepper the different colors to the gingival areas in the hydrocolloid and cure that before you pour? or does it fall off and/or get dislodged so it ends up in the wrong place when your done?

i understand there is only so much room in there and i have to be mindfull of that. (no trial pack) but can it be done?

anyone tried it?

I've not tried it but think it would work. Fix ya up a sample and give it a try and give us some feed back. I'd be interested in hearing the results.

I dont pour any dentures just partials but I may fix a sample and try one this coming week. I'd do it just like when your packing once you've placed your stain let it sit for 5min. or so to get firm then do your pour. I'd say its going to be a little trickier to apply but think it will work.

 

[DentureDude]

im not set up for it yet but i appreciate your effort on this. give it a go if you can.

let us know, hopefully with a pic or two. my concern would be keeping it in place on the slick, non porous surface of the hydrocolloid..

AJEL,.. you pour allot, have you tried it yet?

 

[AJEL]

It adds time to a time sensitive process, I have done quite a few I would need to know what material U are going to be using before I suggested a technique I have more than a few. JamesA has the start, when U figure which PMMA U want PM me or phone, I can probably save U some hair. & the slurry stain is not the only custom U can do with pour. What did U think of my ethnic/standard cases? the dark has some mix staining & the standard has some fiber (red & brown) http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f2/special-waxes-ethnic-8757/

 

[DentureDude]

k, thanks. yea i saw the cases. looks great.

 

[cdtwade]

Try 'gluing' the teeth in place with a dab of honey.

Be sure to use "organic" honey.

 

[CYNOSURER]

i could be confused.

when you guys say "stained" are you talking about staining the outside after its processed? thats something im not familiar with.

i guess what im asking is this:
can you salt and pepper the different colors to the gingival areas in the hydrocolloid and cure that before you pour? or does it fall off and/or get dislodged so it ends up in the wrong place when your done?

i understand there is only so much room in there and i have to be mindfull of that. (no trial pack) but can it be done?

anyone tried it?

We make our AEDs with the pour technique. When we feel like having fun (or giving a free upgrade) we salt and pepper incisal edge to the teeth, then some body, then neck, and then pour in the base. I see no reason why we couldn't keep on going with some gingival toning. Of course it would be easier with the teeth already there, as long as the mix doesn't flow over the facials. I've never done the honey thing and have only done one pour using denture teeth (not part of our line up). But I'd trust toothfairie on that advice.
Hey Wade, where do you even get non-organic honey? I would think the bee lobby would bee all over that with a fine tooth comb... a honey comb... but a comb no less.

 

[cdtwade]

Clackers and cold-cure

Non-organic honey? Tennesee.