Please recomend zirconia porcelain

[kdental]

Hello there , i tested many porcelains and it might be me but i got things to complain on most of them ,i am loki g for a change as i returned all my Vita VM9 after 6 months of trying to get a matching shade out of the bottle.
Now i first started with SNF porcelain that most did not even hear about it -nice shades , amazing short baking time , nice shrinkage ( most bridges done in2 bakes+glaze) than they start having black spots in their enamel and i purchased i diferent times with the same problem.
After that i switched to zubler , nice colors , not as good shrinkage , i had to do a wash bake. And the programs longer
Than i tried Vita VM9 and you heard the storry
After vita , Noritake CZR , now the shades are amazing, it builds pretty nice but the bake time , guys ,way too long and it shrinks like crazy .
And to understand why i have so high espectations , i used o work with heraceram and who tried it knows what i am talking about .
,please recomend other porcelains and share your experiences ( i really care about shade acuracy ,bake time( less than 15 min if possible) number of bakes needed ( SNF did not need liner or wash)
Thank you

 

[BobCDT]

GC Initial, been using it for over a decade in my lab. Both ZR for zirconia and MC for PFM. Looks great, matches the guide, really nice transluncy and looks great in the mouth. This on was done by one of our staff at CAP, Lucas Lammott. Full contour linguals full cutback anteriors and pink gum form the GC gum kit. Not sure of firing cycle time but can check.
If you would like I will send you a few sample bottles.

 

[BobCDT]

GC firing cycle 16:40 for the first bake.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

GC intial. for sure! we use it here as well. LOVE it
and my tech that struggled with vita porcelains and others loves it too. not only is it gorgeous, but it handles very well, shades are spot on, shrink is minimal, and its generally very easy to use.

 

[Care Dental Lab]

I like Creation Zi

 

[kdental]

View attachment 19650 GC Initial, been using it for over a decade in my lab. Both ZR for zirconia and MC for PFM. Looks great, matches the guide, really nice transluncy and looks great in the mouth. This on was done by one of our staff at CAP, Lucas Lammott. Full contour linguals full cutback anteriors and pink gum form the GC gum kit. Not sure of firing cycle time but can check.
If you would like I will send you a few sample bottles.

I would love to sample it
Thank you for the replies.

 

[CatamountRob]

Might be worth your time to send Disturbed a PM and ask him what he thinks.
.....for entertainment value, if nothing else.

 

[rkm rdt]

That's beautiful work Bob, makes me want to give GC a try.

 

[charles007]

Extremely nice work Bob !
Do you know if Lucas used a natural glaze on this case, no external stains, or used LC Lustre and assorted Lustre staining colors ?

 

[ts4341]

CZR is very good too

 

[charles007]

Hello there , i tested many porcelains and it might be me but i got things to complain on most of them ,i am loki g for a change as i returned all my Vita VM9 after 6 months of trying to get a matching shade out of the bottle.
Now i first started with SNF porcelain that most did not even hear about it -nice shades , amazing short baking time , nice shrinkage ( most bridges done in2 bakes+glaze) than they start having black spots in their enamel and i purchased i diferent times with the same problem.
After that i switched to zubler , nice colors , not as good shrinkage , i had to do a wash bake. And the programs longer
Than i tried Vita VM9 and you heard the storry
After vita , Noritake CZR , now the shades are amazing, it builds pretty nice but the bake time , guys ,way too long and it shrinks like crazy .
And to understand why i have so high espectations , i used o work with heraceram and who tried it knows what i am talking about .
,please recomend other porcelains and share your experiences ( i really care about shade acuracy ,bake time( less than 15 min if possible) number of bakes needed ( SNF did not need liner or wash)
Thank you

Over time in a low production setting I've learned your core shade zirconia framework must be shaded correctly to achieve accurate shades. Some porcelains are more chromatic than others, and some porcelains are more translucent which means your shades are more likely to not match if your zir frame is colored incorectly.
The value of the zirconia framework is critical to get good shades with VM9, CZR, and in particular the light 0M,1M1, 1m2, A1, B2 shade range. The majority of my anterior cases are in light 3D and 3D Interpolated shades. Some of the light shades will only match using uncolored zirconia, and especially the light 3D/bleached shades.
GC porcelain has more chroma than CZR and more accurate shades with GC in my opinion....I use to hate VM9 because of the shades, and now they match and I rarely use them anymore... lol

Wanting to find a zir porcelain that fires in 15 minutes or less is asking for big time problems, chipping/shearing, right off the bat. Hope you use a long slow cool on your last firing !

 

[JohnWilson]

Lucas is a beast. I did not know he worked at CAP. He is a very talented tech. We are now exclusively using GC glass . Vita can officially suck it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Al.]

Yes good move for Lucas going over to CAP !!

 

[kdental]

Over time in a low production setting I've learned your core shade zirconia framework must be shaded correctly to achieve accurate shades. Some porcelains are more chromatic than others, and some porcelains are more translucent which means your shades are more likely to not match if your zir frame is colored incorectly.
The value of the zirconia framework is critical to get good shades with VM9, CZR, and in particular the light 0M,1M1, 1m2, A1, B2 shade range. The majority of my anterior cases are in light 3D and 3D Interpolated shades. Some of the light shades will only match using uncolored zirconia, and especially the light 3D/bleached shades.
GC porcelain has more chroma than CZR and more accurate shades with GC in my opinion....I use to hate VM9 because of the shades, and now they match and I rarely use them anymore... lol

Wanting to find a zir porcelain that fires in 15 minutes or less is asking for big time problems, chipping/shearing, right off the bat. Hope you use a long slow cool on your last firing !

As i said Czr the shade is amazing and i know why , because of the base shade . VM9 the more body i build the further i get from the shade guide on the same frames that the shades were near perfect using SNF or CZR , . And yes under 15 min , heraceram was baking in 9 min and never a problem really nice shade and translucency I always cool slow my porcelain . Thank you soo much for so many replies

 

[AGV]

Every porc. has it's own trick, but you can get good outcome with all them if you managed properly the frame as Charles007 said. First i used Vita, but never got any succes i think because were the years of the thick ugly opaque Zir frames. Then i move to e-max, but it's low Temperature prohibits any correction, so now it's my last correction "live or die" porc... I've been trying Creation ZI-F , good chroma with 0.6-0.8 thikness, so useful for that facial layered Zr; Noritake CZR, that is the more bright and translucent , so careful with the color of your frame, but succes at 90%; and GC Zr-FS, very easy to get 100% succes, low srink and perfect chroma.
I want to ask you all which is your trick for gingiva porc. because i have problems with my accounts. They just say don't like my gingiva colors, that are too pinky, they want it more reddish, like the resin dentures ... And i swing to all the gingiva porc. from A to Z with no succes.

 

[Tayebdental]

Noritake porcelains are great. Is Cap a distributer of GC products?. Nice work.

 

[Tayebdental]

View attachment 19650 GC Initial, been using it for over a decade in my lab. Both ZR for zirconia and MC for PFM. Looks great, matches the guide, really nice transluncy and looks great in the mouth. This on was done by one of our staff at CAP, Lucas Lammott. Full contour linguals full cutback anteriors and pink gum form the GC gum kit. Not sure of firing cycle time but can check.
If you would like I will send you a few sample bottles.

Bob. Is this done on the Roland 50 or the new Roland you presented in the video?.

 

[JohnWilson]

I want to ask you all which is your trick for gingiva porc. because i have problems with my accounts. They just say don't like my gingiva colors, that are too pinky, they want it more reddish, like the resin dentures ... And i swing to all the gingiva porc. from A to Z with no succes.

The secret weapon is luster paste gum, here is a video presentation by a very good tech and friend. You can get amazing depth with no glass. We skim coat over it with almost no dimension changes and it looks great

 

[Car 54]

The work Lucas did is incredible. Thanks for giving us some crown and bridge "porn" to lust after, Bob. It's work you just like looking at in appreciation, like a Rembrandt.

 

[fmalenizy]

I think emax as gd as GC

Sent from my D6633 using Tapatalk