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TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

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Will someone clue this moron in.....please?
Where on this thread or any thread for that matter has anyone talked about Taiwan? As for zipperhead, it sounded good to me, maybe because the lack of gray matter between your ears? As for the Lava, we do use it from occasion, and it happens I can get it at a reasonable price from Mark Jackson at Precision Ceramics, Inc. in California....That's right an American. As for calling me a toothless warrior, You kiss your mother with that mouth?
 
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labdude

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O.K. 95 years,
The problem we have is this. You are the 2nd person coming to this site and verbally assaulting and insulting in your first post here. The first person that did that is still here, at least the messages are. He is not man enough to answer the counter statements that were put forth to him. I suggest you read his posts, you will see, he came here attacking as did you.
You seem to be interested in defending yourself. As you should be, after coming here and attacking everyone in your first post.
However, this is a friendly site devoted to the sharing of honest and truthfull information. It is not a place for such negative sweeping generalizations as you introduced yourself with. This type of behavior is distracting form the true meaning and ideals of this site.
With that, I ask you to share kindly, and stop the attacks and join in the sharing of knowledge.
I have a very short fuse, I will not tolerate people who come here just to start trouble, then blame that trouble on anyone else but themselves.
Come here and be educated, and share some things you know.
Be nice or be deleted.
Mike.

I add that your first post indicated that you were Chinese. Now you call yourself Tiawanese. Misrepresentation of oneself for the purpose of being disrespectful is also a reason for deletion. Misrepresentation for any reason that is harmful is intolerable.
 
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Synovio

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I dunno about you folks - but from my perspective, this once-awesome industry is rapidly falling victim to robotics and outsourcing. I have just two accts left & both are slow..cold-calling isn't working anymore. (So far anyways) It's bleak. I thought I'd make it to retirement, but I dunno now..I might hafta revisit the ol' standby occupation..(amatuer gynecologist).
 
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rmcmanus

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I’m not a lab owner so this topic is not as annoying to me as it is to most of you but I am old enough to remember the days when my dad referred to products made in Japan as Japland. In the 1950’s most Japanese products were cheap toys that were made of balsa wood and frequently broke before or while you were opening the package in which they were wrapped.
This of course changed and now the Japanese make a huge percentage of products in the Tool and Die industry as well as auto and electronics. Toyota is the world’s largest auto maker.
There is no doubt that currently the Chinese dental lab industry has some problems with the items they are making for the US dental industry. This will change. Just as the Japanese had difficulty, the Chinese will learn their lessons slowly and eventually make a large impact in the Dental Lab market. Interestingly enough, the Chinese are being helped by Dentsply and probably other American Companies to compete with us in the American Market. It looks like Dentsply’s going to make out OK even if the rest of their US customers are hurt by the Chinese competition.
It’s really hard to compete with an overseas company whose work force walk to work because that is there only mode of transportation and a benefit for them is a fan in the window especially when your US workforce all wants BMW’s and health care benefits.
There also seems to be a trend toward digitalizing everything and having the part that “fits the tooth” made elsewhere and shipped to you for adding of the porcelain or whatever. This greatly simplifies a lot of the most difficult part of a labs responsibilities yet aids the overseas labs probably more than us because it make it easier for them to get the thing to fit.
Cost is a big part of any purchase (never forget this). Value is a big part of a business relationship as well and once a correct price and value association is achieved the American Lab industry will remain strong in spite of foreign competition. The Chinese are coming like it or not; work on being a better lab value to your dentists. This doesn’t mean discounting your fees but by finding ways to make your service more important that making crowns & dentures. How can you improve the relationship with your doctors adding value to your services?
 
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labdude

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Hi rmcmanus,
Service in every way I can think of. I do it every day. I stop by even if there is no pick up, just in the area. Etc.
Mike.
 
Kreyer

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In regards to the start of this thread by Travis and the next 18 months. I can tell you that I was invited to attend the ADA Conference on the Future of Dental Laboratory Technology in Chicago, Aug 7th. There was no mention of what Travis stated or anything similar.

There was however extensive discussion about China and outsourcing. As one prosthodontist who spoke stated, "in the USA by law consumers have to know where their suits and clothes are made, but not their teeth..Why??"

There should be a dentists as well as a patients right to know law regarding materials and origin of manufacturer.

I would like to know how many technicians or clinicians believe there should be educational requirements in the USA to be a Dental Laboratory Technician?

Robert Kreyer CDT
 
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labdude

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There should be requirements, that govern all states the same.
There should be continueing education needed as well, but, it needs to be easily available to everyone. Not ask a guy on the east coast to fly to the west coast for it.
Me.... I have no CDT. Been at it for 40 years. Never did anything but Orthodontics.
Mike.
 
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rmcmanus

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getting the government involved is just going to increase your(our) costs and make our service more expensive and less competitive to foreign competition.
Let the dentist know his impression or bite or something was great; everyone loves a compliment. Tell the doc that you are please to be working with him because (fill in compliment here). Be honest but just showing up is not enough we need to do more, now, cement relationships, now. What we have been doing is not going to be effective in the future.

How about a change attitute too by not ridiculing the dentist we work for. I cannot sell my partials door to door so I need a dentist or I'm bagging food at the grocery store. Dentists are necessary for my family so I treat him/her that way all the time.

Richard
 
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labdude

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No government,less government, very true. But a form of required education for our field, wouldn't that be "in line" somehow??

I did just give a thank you delivery of some goodies to 1 office. I rotate this goodie delivery.
Your right about the compliments, we don't do it enough. Seems the 1 problem office or doc gets to the front of our thoughts more than the 10 great offices or docs. We have to let them know, not pass them over.
You are so absoluely right on Richard.
Great words, please keep it up. Remind us of what we need to do.
Mike.
 
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toof makr

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ok...first...already got into this w/ jackson...
forget china...YES...if you are outsourcing to there...cover your ass...AND...you HAVE to B FDA...approved...all that...
now...as lab owners...he was giving me a rash if :censored:...w/o actually...POINTING my lab name out...but...my "hobby shop" as he called it....was...NOT in COMPLIANCE...w/ FDA..BS...
actually..i had been doing everything ...well...almost everything...i was doing it...but it ALL wasn't being documented....
in short...i called the board...there IS CRAP we HAVE to be accountable for....WHEN that magic date is...??not sure...but here is what "jackson" says...AND...NADL...says it IS CORRECT...now, the part about a CDT onboard...EVERY lab..that is only a few states...NOT a nationwide thing...never heard it was part of the deal...
THIS...is what WE..as LAB OWNERS...are "supposed" to be doing...

COMPLIANCE

1) Carefully scrutinize the companies we choose to do business with, only selecting vendors with a proven track record of producing quality products, providing excellent training and standing behind those products. If it's a new company, or a little company, you are taking chances. There is one company who I have spoken about here who is private labeling ziconia. When I had problems with a product I bought from them, they went into radio silence and quit returning calls or e-mails. Would you stake your reputation and bank account on this kind of company? Do they have FDA registration for the application they are advertising, and do you have all the FDA mandated packaging and markings?

2) Review your products annually. What is an accepetable remake percentage? How is this product performing in-house and introarally? What is in the scientific (CRA) literature about it? Are the reports from the field favorable? Are you finding that certain types of cases are working better or worse than others? Does your experience contradict the manufacturers indicated uses? Should you keep doing this product?

3) Update your standard operation procedures and manufacturing protocol. Are you following the manufacturers most up-to-date instructions for use? Has anything been changed or updated since you were trained on the product, have they changed any perameters, formulas or materials? Have they added or changed any indications, contraindications? If you were trained by a contracted technician, did he teach you any shortcuts or tricks that disagree with the instructions for use? Did you get any certificates or licensing documentation? Is it properly filed and can it be renewed annually? Even if it's voluntary, do it. You need it if you start having failures.

Be sure every technician who touches a product is trained and documented to do that work, and keep track of everyone who touched a case. Never try out a new technician on a real case, and do not play with new techniques or materials on live cases.

4) Are you calibrated? We all saw the failures reported when zirconia frames were not being fired at the right temperatures and rate of climb. Those were just very minor differences, and they still looked perfect even though they were flawed. How will your products be affected if your equipment is not performing properly, and temperatures are too high or too low, or timing and cycle sequencing are off? If these products fail because of your machinery, whose fault is it? Yours or theirs?

5) Control Inventory. Have a strict process for who has access to materials that might be mishandled, contaminated or expired. Do not mix and match old materials and if new materials are released, resist your hoarding instincts and dispose of them. Have a process for checking that the materials you receive are what you ordered, and that you have a system in place to identify materials in the event of a recall. Only use qualified vendors and do not substitue any restorative constituents. Die stone yes. Opaque, NO.

6) Failures and corrective action The FDA has guidelines of what kind of products need to be reported in the event of a failure, and I have posted that material here before. Regardless of if you need to report failures, you still need to track them. The same thing with complaints or other problems. You also need a process for evaluating and taking corrective action. If you still have failures or if you suspect a product is faulty, you can still report this to the FDA. Maybe you are not alone, and lots of these things are going bad.


again...NOT my words...have to give credit to JACKSON for making this simple to read...
BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO DO...!!!!

hope this helps...
 
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Synovio

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Wow - obviously 95 really is a zipperhead..only a true zipperhead would ask what a zipperhead was..

I got my CDT in 1981..but I let it expire in 2003..

So where would that leave a handsome brilliant guy like me? I would think I'd get grandfathered in..

If not, then I'm just gonna hafta start a punk rock band until I slide inta the golden years of soshakurity retirement..:cool:
 
araucaria

araucaria

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In regards to the start of this thread by Travis and the next 18 months. I can tell you that I was invited to attend the ADA Conference on the Future of Dental Laboratory Technology in Chicago, Aug 7th. There was no mention of what Travis stated or anything similar.

There was however extensive discussion about China and outsourcing. As one prosthodontist who spoke stated, "in the USA by law consumers have to know where their suits and clothes are made, but not their teeth..Why??"

There should be a dentists as well as a patients right to know law regarding materials and origin of manufacturer.

I would like to know how many technicians or clinicians believe there should be educational requirements in the USA to be a Dental Laboratory Technician?

Robert Kreyer CDT
IMO-
The origin of this thread stated that there were only 18mths to go, but when something ain't broke (allegedly) then no-one will fix it. Nobody wants the responsibility to take the task of making the neccessary changes.
Here's a thought,(1) if a Doc' sent his work to the lab and the patient became ill or injured there's a big possibility of a claim being made. If the work was outsourced by the lab and the Doc didn't know he'd be seriously pi55ed ! Big problems He should have taken steps to get guarantees about the supply chain and accreditation to back-up the quality of the product and service. The patient will think he's a 'mickymouse' operator for sure. The lab and the Doc will get hammered. (2)If the Doc outsourced directly and the same problem occured he'll get the same treatment from the patient but the lab will avoid problems. Now this would be the perfect opportunity for the labs to demonstrate how the problems could have been avoided because of their training, accrediation, certification, CE, licensing etc and having the restorations made at home. The root of the problem simply comes from a monetary issue. Some might say it's greed, some that it's the free-market rules in play and that the whole profession is evolving naturally.
Now it's likely that the overseas outsource supplier will soon have all the neccessary paperwork to verify their credentials and committment to supply reliable and safe restorations, while homegrown businesses languish due to apathy or resistance to change. If there isn't a reputable organisation that can guarantee the protection of the patient's interests, then the profession will be devalued and the skillbase will gradually be lost with many jobs gone permanently.
2c
 
Mark Jackson

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ok...first...already got into this w/ jackson...
forget china...YES...if you are outsourcing to there...cover your ass...AND...you HAVE to B FDA...approved...all that...
now...as lab owners...he was giving me a rash if :censored:...w/o actually...POINTING my lab name out...but...my "hobby shop" as he called it....was...NOT in COMPLIANCE...w/ FDA..BS...

again...NOT my words...have to give credit to JACKSON for making this simple to read...
BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO DO...!!!!

hope this helps...

Wow, that's some good stuff I posted on another website and got pasted here. The lab owner who reposted it here was correct. You must be in compliance wiuth the FDA GMP's. All the other stuff that Travis alluded to in his post back then is being pushed for by people like me.

I've stated as much here on the post about "What this industry needs"
 
ZOOMAN

ZOOMAN

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Mark, I see you keep up with things. Maybe you should take a look at what I've found. I copied and pasted FDA info and pages I found. Have fun.


Dental Products Panel
The Dental Products Panel reviews and evaluates data concerning the safety and effectiveness of marketed and investigational products for use in dentistry, endodontics or bone physiology relative to the oral and maxillofacial area and makes appropriate recommendations to the Commissioner of Food and Drugs.
Designated Federal Official (DFO)
Olga I. Claudio, Ph.D.
301-796-7608

Dental Products Panel

2010 Meeting Materials of the Dental Products Panel

Search Results: Dental lABORATORIES IN cHINA
 
subrisi

subrisi

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To bring this discussion back to the point, I believe it is a good thing to have at least one educated person in a lab. I do not believe that a cdt has to pay dues every year to keep the title. I also don't believe in the low requirement to become a cdt. I got my education in Germany and refused so far to get my cdt here because I see it as a degradation. I am also very upset that my degree is not recognized here. I have one employee who has a masters degree and her degree is not recognized either.I will refuse to take the CDT test as long as possible hoping that SOMEONE will review the whole test to create a higher value title. I believe a technician should be educated in the whole field of dental technology before he/she can take the test and not just one part of it.
Angelika
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

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To bring this discussion back to the point, I believe it is a good thing to have at least one educated person in a lab. I do not believe that a cdt has to pay dues every year to keep the title. I also don't believe in the low requirement to become a cdt. I got my education in Germany and refused so far to get my cdt here because I see it as a degradation. I am also very upset that my degree is not recognized here. I have one employee who has a masters degree and her degree is not recognized either.I will refuse to take the CDT test as long as possible hoping that SOMEONE will review the whole test to create a higher value title. I believe a technician should be educated in the whole field of dental technology before he/she can take the test and not just one part of it.
Angelika

Actually you do......Before you are even allowed to take the Specialty written test or the Practical hands on test, you are required to take the 'Comprehensive Test' which covers everything in the dental technology field unless you have attended a NBC recognized school in Dental Technology and then you can bypass the comprehensive part of the total examination.
 
jimi

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outsourcing to china is natural... example, we all criticize the cheap plastic crap sold by W***art, but we all shop there to benefit from cost savings. who can blame a dentist for doing the same?
 
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rkycdt

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outsourcing to china is natural... example, we all criticize the cheap plastic crap sold by W***art, but we all shop there to benefit from cost savings. who can blame a dentist for doing the same?

But at least at the store you have the luxury of picking up one piece of cheap plastic crap and comparing it to the other piece of plastic crap that is more expensive and made in the US and then making an educated decision as the ultimate consumer and then you can go home and live with whatever the benefits/consequences that result from your choice.
 
TheLabGuy

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outsourcing to china is natural... example, we all criticize the cheap plastic crap sold by W***art, but we all shop there to benefit from cost savings. who can blame a dentist for doing the same?

Hey, do you know how they spell assume, before you start including me in that "WE" scenario, I'd like to inform you I don't and actually refuse to shop at Walmart. Just like the excessive weight watching eaters out there that pick up everything to read exactly what's in it, I do the same.....but I'm making sure it says MADE IN AMERICA before I purchase it. Don't get me wrong, there is some countries out there that make some damn fine products, and I buy those also, hence the Triumph and Ducati I have but Chinese crap.....no thanks.
 
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