piece work

CRWNMKR

CRWNMKR

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can anyone tell me what the going rate for piece work is for an average 200.00 crown would be. wax, finish and porcelain. thank you
 
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labdude

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How many Porc, wax, or finish can resonably be done in an hour???
 
DMC

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How much money do you want to make?

I'm fast, some are slooooooooW!
I think piece work was invented for the slow guys, or people who make mistakes often.
 
TheLabGuy

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*** is correct, their is some really fast and accurate techs but their are some seriously slow individuals out there as well. I'd save an average tech would do 16-18 porcelain crowns a day. Just waxing, about 45-50 crowns a day (no full cast),and just finishing, about 35-45 (no full cast). Those numbers is what i've seen throughout my years, but as goes with everything, their is exceptions and much slower people. The slower people aren't necessarily slow, as in more quality orientated, thought i'd say that as well.
 
JohnWilson

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How much money do you want to make?

I'm fast, some are slooooooooW!
I think piece work was invented for the slow guys, or people who make mistakes often.

Piece work was invented to control direct labor costs. PERIOD.

An industry standard goal is to shoot for 30% direct/indirect labor. So at that rate you would have less than $60 allocated to labor on a $200 crown.

You do the math, piece work benefits a tech that can consistently crank out consistent quality work. It benefits the lab as it controls costs/ and costs associated with remakes.

It also in my opinion generates a managerial nightmare. Keeping sloppy speedy techs from working too fast will always be a challenge. The QC guy will always be hated and will often times not last in this position. Maintaining enough work in the lab to satisfy the needs of the speedsters is a challenge as well.

I have chosen to not implement this in my lab but I know several large labs that have made this system work flawlessly. I have just not seen it in a high end situation.
 
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labdude

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Thanks guys for the info.

John,
You are absolutely right, in all aspects. I did use piece work for a time, had everything except floor sweeping broken down into piece work.
The people who would push for income were a real problem, quality control goes straight down the tubes. While it easier to control labor costs, you do it at the cost of real headaches trying to slow employees down. Better to have a relaxed atmosphere.
I am just echoing everything you have said, great input John,
true common sense once again.
Mike.
 
Al.

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Yeah Johns right, I had a some peice workers for awhile. Forget about getting metal support unless you always look over their shoulders, they may not even put the die on the model. Also if they shorten a margin or if you have a short margin in the casting, watch out you may get a die scraped and a new margin marked, rather than a rewax.

I used to offer it to my FT guys as a way to make extra money when we were super busy and it was amazing to see how fast they really could work. But that used to give them incentive to drag during the day so they could make the easy money that peice work offers.
Good thing if you can keep the quality up is you dont have to pay anybody when you are slow.
Its been 15 yrs but I was paying a man and his wife $5 to wax and $5 to finish. I trimed the dies, he prepared the dies, waxed and invested. I cast and he devested, fit and finished. He worked for three different labs and came to mine at night.
 
Pronto

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Wow, I guess I'm slow. My boss is even slower so I never have a hard time burying him.;)
 
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lil_leftee

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Just to put myself in perspective, and if anyone would like to evaluate me, would you consider me slow/underpaid? You could be brutally honest, I don't mind lol.

My current position and schedule within a 8-9 hour period:

Casting
Devest
19 units seating/fitting with 9 of them finished by me (no full casts)
14 units waxed (no full casts)

I had on-the-job training currently in this lab and been working 4 or so years - 2 years in model/plaster work and 2-3 years in wax/metal. Currently getting paid $475 per week doing 45 hours a week, 5 days a week.
 
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Affinity

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I had on-the-job training currently in this lab and been working 4 or so years - 2 years in model/plaster work and 2-3 years in wax/metal. Currently getting paid $475 per week doing 45 hours a week, 5 days a week.

if youre any good, find a new job... get more training, with better technicians
 
wwcanoer

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and we wonder why it's hard to attract people to this work
 
jerry

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wowo,..,. the technician salary is so high in us.. price work is better on anywhere. chinese has also... but china is not very good, it is low. welcome to china investment..
 
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clearH2O

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Piece-work price

$25 porc
$5-$8 wax at most
$5 finish

??
Piece-work may vary depend on who and where the tech is working for. I know prices in CA.
In Southern CA, big labs pay less-want more (production),and top pay for piece-work porcelain build-up to finish is not over $15-$16/unit.
However, you won't be surprise if some CHIT lab paying $9-$10/unit for a completed three layer porcelain.
Northern CA porcelain tech piece-work get better pay is about $25-$30/unit.
Wax and finish copping $5-$8 (PFM).
Finisher in ALL-ceramics get pay $2.25-$2.5(Southern CA).
I know these prices by net working b/w technicians who work at large commercial lab. This information may be incorrect due to my limited resource. I am welcome any correction from you guys if there are a mistake.
clearh2o
 
Mark Jackson

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Piece work was invented to control direct labor costs. PERIOD.

It also in my opinion generates a managerial nightmare. Keeping sloppy speedy techs from working too fast will always be a challenge. The QC guy will always be hated and will often times not last in this position. Maintaining enough work in the lab to satisfy the needs of the speedsters is a challenge as well.

I have chosen to not implement this in my lab but I know several large labs that have made this system work flawlessly. I have just not seen it in a high end situation.

Actually, it works in ANY situation. It's really kind of silly to paint everything with such a broad brush John. In fact, I would say that a small lab, paid hourly will be more likely to do VERY inconsistent work!

Production pay incentives are used in all kinds of industry, and they help the technician to be aware of efficiency and the time spent on a given task. You just can't give everyone free rein to do whatever they want, for as long as they want, or work will look different every day.

How can you possibly get consistant results when they are stretching the clock to try and work 8 hours? If they can make the same money and go home in six, you will produce a much more consistent product in the end, and have happier, more rested employees.

Multitiered incentive systems:

Reward technicians for getting CE
Reward them for cross training
Reward them for being efficient and meeting or exceeding goals
Allows them flex time
Reducing management headaches and scheduling problems
Reduces late cases
Lowers remakes
Fixes labor costs

Much much more...You guys need to quit being so narrow minded and assumptive. It's holding you back.
 
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odchamp

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remember the saying " work expands to fill the time available"
 
JohnWilson

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Actually, it works in ANY situation. It's really kind of silly to paint everything with such a broad brush John. In fact, I would say that a small lab, paid hourly will be more likely to do VERY inconsistent work!

You know I disagree with this statement Mark and I have a 20 year track record to stand behind it. Consistency has been one of the main reason I have been able to stay in business and consistently charge more than my competition

Production pay incentives are used in all kinds of industry, and they help the technician to be aware of efficiency and the time spent on a given task. You just can't give everyone free rein to do whatever they want, for as long as they want, or work will look different every day.

Actually you can if you have the right individual. All employees are motivated to come to work for the paycheck, however there are some that enjoy their job and strive to be more creative and excel past what is considered "good enough" When on piece work where is the incentive to do anything more creative.

How can you possibly get consistent results when they are stretching the clock to try and work 8 hours? If they can make the same money and go home in six, you will produce a much more consistent product in the end, and have happier, more rested employees.

I disagree, because these guys will then go to their next job to make up for the extra hours you are not providing for them. .

Multi tiered incentive systems:

Reward technicians for getting CE

If you get techs that choose to go take classes it is not the norm unless you pay their day wage while they are there. Which courses will they choose to take? I guarantee it will be ones where they teach to produce faster units

Reward them for cross training

Thats not exclusive for any payment system I am sure may labs using traditional hourly systems do the same, especially when it gets slow

Reward them for being efficient and meeting or exceeding goals

How is this any different than telling a tech to hurry up hurry up we will give you more money if your faster?

Allows them flex time

Flex time is great when you have the capacity to have 3 shifts. Having the lights on for 2 techs that want to work graveyard is not saving you money. Having a tech working weekends because he is busy at his other job benefits who now?

Reducing management headaches and scheduling problems
Reduces late cases

Lowers remakes


Are you paying your techs for remakes? Who chooses to produce a unit on a die that is not perfect? This makes the chain very dirty as each SMART tech will not sign off to do the work if they think it will not be successful and not get paid for it right?

Fixes labor costs

Much much more...You guys need to quit being so narrow minded and assumptive. It's holding you back.

I am very open minded, I just go by my experience and for me my way works. I would just feel better if you would stop trying to paint the picture that it benefits the tech, its a tool developed by management for management plain and simple.
 
Mark Jackson

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I am very open minded, I just go by my experience and for me my way works. I would just feel better if you would stop trying to paint the picture that it benefits the tech, its a tool developed by management for management plain and simple.

It's all in how you apply it John. Every system can be manipulated by both parties. I know that as an hourly empoloyee myself, I was often resentful when asked to do way above my normal capacity, or when I compared my work to others.

I would rather be given the opportunity to control my own destiny and be rewarded for hard work. Something I have done all my life, and been richly rewarded for. I like to give that same chance to those who want it.

Your system works for you, and that's great. I use a combination of both, but there are rewards for EVERYBODY, which helps us keep our eye on the ball.
 
araucaria

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Best way - beat the crap out of 'em if they resist your demands :rolleyes:


ai51.tinypic.com_14xfhnt.gif


how do you think the pyramids got finished ? gotta have some motivation ;)


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ai51.tinypic.com_14xfhnt.gif
 

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