Origin Intelligence (assessment)

[NicelyMKV]

est idea on the planet

Why? Just out of curiosity.

 

[smile4me]

great thread ! Thanks for sharing !:rockon:

 

[YMS96]

I really hate milling wax or pmma. It is not accurate. The material is floppy with uneven stress built into it.

We're printing on a DP all day and also milling wax and the milled wax units looks just as good, if not more accurate (with better surface) than the printed ones. I think your results were due to type of wax you were using (AND THE ROLANDS). I can easily mill 0.3mm walls with zero distortion or chipping using the wax we have.

Holy crap! I think they have 3shape beat by a mile! World Domination??

Can you say, "Plays well with others?". That should be their motto. Look at all those partnerships!

Wow, look at those partnerships. Exocad has a lot of catching up to do. There are so many features and import/export options that I'm not even going to list that Exocad doesn't do that 3Shape will. 3Shape is the most open and widely supported system out right now. If you are a small lab and want a basic cad system to get you in the game for cheap then this system is definitely worth it. If you're looking for a system that will grow with your lab, with more functionality, flexibility and importing/outputting options, go with another system like 3Shape.

If 3Shape just combined the Solutionix/Medit scanner with their software (and scanning algorithms) then I think they would definitely be unstoppable.

 

[TheLabGuy]

FYI, this isn't B&D's software, it's Exocad. They have nothing to do with the actual development - they just suggest features to the programmers.

Actually, that isn't correct, if you go out to B&D you will see the R&D going on with the scanner hardware and software implementation. I guess when I said, "team" that was assumed.

We're printing on a DP all day and also milling wax and the milled wax units looks just as good, if not more accurate (with better surface) than the printed ones. I think your results were due to type of wax you were using (AND THE ROLANDS). I can easily mill 0.3mm walls with zero distortion or chipping using the wax we have.



Wow, look at those partnerships. Exocad has a lot of catching up to do. There are so many features and import/export options that I'm not even going to list that Exocad doesn't do that 3Shape will. 3Shape is the most open and widely supported system out right now. If you are a small lab and want a basic cad system to get you in the game for cheap then this system is definitely worth it. If you're looking for a system that will grow with your lab, Disagree, you should see the updates and I didn't have to pay for them, and don't have to pay for them every year either. Your comments below already suggest the scanner (hardware) is better and the white light is, hands down it wins. Although the Exocad software doesn't have all these crazy options YET, it has a platform to grow on and be the best in the market. Will they? Who knows, but for me, I prefer not to have all these crazy options confusing me even more when it comes to scanning/designing. It's a fun and exciting time in the cad/cam world, we'll see how it shakes out though.with more functionality, flexibility and importing/outputting options, go with another system like 3Shape.

If 3Shape just combined the Solutionix/Medit scanner with their software (and scanning algorithms) then I think they would definitely be unstoppable.

 

[NicelyMKV]

The model with the yellow crown design is Origin Intelligence. The other is 3shape. Both are scans of the exact same model. Check out the detail captured of the model. Ill let you guys decide which is more accurate......

 

[disturbed]

night and day difference to me. white light looks like the way to go!

 

[charles007]

The model with the yellow crown design is Origin Intelligence. The other is 3shape. Both are scans of the exact same model. Check out the detail captured of the model. Ill let you guys decide which is more accurate......

These 2 crowns were done as a demo for me to see the differences in both scanners, and see the differences of the final anatomy. I asked B&D to scan a real case so I could see the differences in scan speed and ease of use of the cad software. The demo was done with Teamviewer so I could watch on my computer in real time and help in designing these crowns and seeing how the wax tools work. These were timed on a Stopwatch on the computer..
As some of you already know, the 3shape scanned the case in approx 5 minutes or less and the Origin in 7 minutes. Both crowns were scanned and designed in 15 minutes or less. No winner in total time to scan and design......The Exocad software designed faster but scanned slower with more accurate scans. In my opinion after seeing 3 long demo's with the Origins Exocad, and watching many cases designed with 3shape, the Origin wins hands down as far as simple to use, fast to design, and more accurate... The Exocad software is like comparing Apple's software to Microsoft, but without the high price tag... White light compared to camera's... 3shape has the speed and white light has the accuracy.. Techs like me without cad experience will love the ease of use with Exocad. Others with scanner experience might like 3shape better...

Real case scenario, several weeks ago I had a crown with a really bad area on one spot on the margin.. very sub g with undercuts... I scanned the crown with a white light scanner and with 3shape to mill both scans. Doctor was given both crowns to seat the best fitting one. The 3shape crown was sent back and the white light crown was seated............
Don't tell me 3shape is as good as white light, I SAW the light.. Maybe white light only makes a difference on really bad preps...? for me, I insist on accuracy, and want easy to use software.

Charles

 

[NicelyMKV]

I prefer the anatomy of the Origin intelligence crown as well. I have had my crowns done on a 3shape machine recently while waiting on my new unlocked Origin system. Big difference in overall fits. They are ok but nowhere near what I was getting with my previous locked Origins system. I do get some funky preps though but thats what I get... Origins handled all of them with zero issues. Really handled undercuts a lot better as well. Thanks for the photo example Charles. Proof is in the pudding

 

[paulg100]

What you really wanna see is the point cloud of the model if you have these two files in STL??

Download a 30day trial of geomagic qualify and shove em through that and you can measure the point spacing, then we can REALLY tell what one is more detailed.

ID love to see the results.

Here is some images from Sirona craplab of a typical scan.

Axial wall = spaces over 300um





Marginal area = ranged from about 80um to over 150um





This does not represent the point accuracy, but it tells us how much arbitary data is between the points that make up the model mesh (which our restorations are calculated from)

And there was me wondering why nothing fits with the peice of junk

This is how i understand it, if im wrong then someone please correct me.

Thanks to Pete (K2 ceramics) and ***'s posts for pointing me in the right direction with this. :hail:

 

[DMC]

Yeah, Most all scanners are outside of Dentistry, except the 3M scanner.

2nd best I've seen so far is a German White-light scanner that Amann Girrbach and others package with exocad. It still has data points around 100-150uM spacing.

I found a couple data points closer to 50um, but not too many at all.

The 3M scanner is average .031mm or 31uM spacing with many points much closer. The only one yet to fall into Dental specs that our industry requires.

Don't like your current scanner and want your money back?? Get the hard evidence and sue them. You'll win! Black and White...Cut and Dry. Easy to prove in court! Most scanners have no business in the Dental World. So, what's new?

Scott

 

[TheLabGuy]

That's what I would love for someone to do (Paul or Scott). Get a bunch of scans from different scanners/software and run the data test. I will say there is probably much more to just a data point test to prove it's a better or worse machine because the tools, ease of software, time it takes to scan, the ROI (return on investment) for your lab has to play a role in the end result. However, the data point test would be a great foundational test to show exactly the potential of these differing machines. Sounds like a hell of an article as well for all you journal writers ...hint hint.

 

[DMC]

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[paulg100]

"Don't like your current scanner and want your money back?? Get the hard evidence and sue them. You'll win! Black and White...Cut and Dry. Easy to prove in court! Most scanners have no business in the Dental World. So, what's new?"

Thats exactly what im doing Scott, this unit DOES NOT perform to spec and that is 100% guaranteed as far as i can see, the data is not there to start with. and thanks again for the initial info that got me started with this.

"I will say there is probably much more to just a data point test to prove it's a better or worse machine because the tools, ease of software, time it takes to scan, the ROI (return on investment) for your lab has to play a role in the end result"

Ok this is where i am with that rob. "crap in, crap out". As they say in engineering.

It all starts with the data (as scott has said many times). It dosent matter what the software does, or what the mill is gonna do if the data we are designing from is junk! period!. (and this is the big problem with intra oral scans even more so because of moisture and tissue control etc)

Taking the images i posted as an example, how the HELL am i gonna get a closed margin even by eye, let alone mag, with marginal data points of over 150um ?

What makes it even worse with the Inoes Red crapcam, is the more images you take, the more corrupt that data gets! so you cant even add more images to narrow the spacing.

Unless the prep is textbook with a completely smooth margin, any irregularity between those 150um points is gonna bind in the final resto, and stop the unit from seating.

I was at a meet with delcam and renishaw yesterday. I got em to put a model scan onto a usb stick for me, from the solutonix (same as origin) scanner, but the guy gave me the stl of the frame and not the model! doh. So not much use sadly.

One thing i notice is that the points on the frame from the delcam software are further apart than those of a sirona inlab frame! but this is irrelevant really, its the model where we need the accuarcy more (at least initially)

What ive done here is pretty easy. BEFORE you buy a scanner, insist on an examaple model scan in STL, then just run it though geomagic for analysis. This seems to be a BLACK OR WHITE way of assertaining the scanners ability, rather than pie in the sky accuracy figures from a dental company.

Not sure what origina claim, but i was told the Sirona system was capable of 25um fits before i bought it, erm yeah... i think the pics i posted say otherwise.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Paul, I was told < 10um but the norm was better than 5 um and I agree with that from the titanium, zirconia, and bruxzir standpoint. The pmma is a milling (should be printed) issue from B&D. I'll be interested to see when Jason gets his open Origin scanner and sends scott a few PMMA to have printed what the results are like....hint hint Jason, you're not the only one looking forward to you getting your machine...lol

 

[paulg100]

yep there the specs for the solutonix scanner.

i forgot to say, they have a new model out in the new year with 360 platform for scanning over and under objects (ie wax-ups etc)

 

[Tom Moore]

Are the 510 registrations of the different components in cad/cad systems interchangeable with components of another system? Where does the FDA stand on this.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Scott milled a test Bruxzir crown off the origin STL awhile back and it looked great! I am already planning to load him down with full contour wax ups for Emax and POM. He also mentioned how dense the point cloud was.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Just informed my origin intelligence will be here Monday the 24th!! Finally!!! Freaking DTing here!

 

[TheLabGuy]

Just informed my origin intelligence will be here Monday the 24th!! Finally!!! Freaking DTing here!

Sweet Man...can't wait to see what emerges!!!

 

[charles007]

Sweet Man...can't wait to see what emerges!!!

Hope no more Vo oids