TheLabGuy
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I apologize for my tardiness but as you know the lab life can be a little overwhelming at times.
I didn't take any videos, if you guys really want me to I will. I did take some pictures (below). This is after using this system for approximately two months. Please note that I didn't discuss anything to Origin (B&D) about what I'm going to share with you and they will probably love me or hate me after this. Unlike other folks, I only have 10K wrapped up in this adventure so I don't have to convince myself or anyone this was a good purchase. Please note and more importantly, that we are still in our infancy with this and I'll probably share something here that has already been addressed. So folks want to know if the scanner is worth it?????? Is it worth the 7,500 they area asking for it? Well let's clear that up real quick. It's not 'really' 7,500, because it's another 500 to have it shipped to your business. Then, unless you know Origin's software, you better plan on sending yourself and some your folks who want to be trained (which was another 2K for us, but depending how close you are to Utah that may be different). The training is a must, don't buy this machine thinking you're the best thing since sliced bread, go to it to fine tune and make yourself faster. I sent two of my guys out to Utah, very little dental knowledge but we had the machine almost three weeks before they went out there. I have to admit, through a few phone calls with 'Jim' at B&D my guys were scanning full contour consistently on a regular basis. That way when they went there it was more about homing in on the harder things to do in designing and scanning. So that brings us to the Pro's vs. Con's.
Pro's - The designing software is some of the fastest and most accurate I have seen on the market. The 'designing' portion of this scanner is FAST.
- The Price, you get a computer with the origin and windows installed ready to go with the scanner and all the technical advice you need for 8K at your doorstep.
-Technical advice, awesome, from the sales staff to the technical side. If you would like something added to the software on the next update then call up Jessie or Jim and they'll put it on the list. Jessie is the software designer (well him and his team) but you get to talk to the guy who designed it. Doesn't get much better than that.
-Accuracy, the zirconia and bruxzir (and I imagine the titanium as well) are accurate as all get out. I throw these under my scopes and they are just as good, if not better than what I cast. Most of you have seen my work, I'm a picky bastard
-The Price, very reasonable, the BruxZir's are 38 dollars, Zirconia copings 35 dollars, and PMMA's (a hard wax) are 7 dollars. That's to your doorstep, no shipping charges. When the implant software is released, they said you can get Titanium custom abutments for 125 dollars.
-Keeping it Simple, this is something that must be a pro because I've seen the vast anatomy libraries and all these options and those options on some of these scanners and guess what...this doesn't have that. It's friggin' simple.
-Communication - I take a ton of screen shots in the designing software and email those off to my Doctors to talk about a case. Within seconds or while they are on the phone I can change designs, take a screen shot, and email it to them while they are telling me about a new wine selection on the phone. Communication is HUGE with my clients, I know some labs out there shy away from this, but I have a big mouth and use it to my advantage.
-Production- I use to be in the big production labs, so let me run this scenario by you production folks if you're reading this. What about you use a 3Shape scanner to scan with, will take you less than 5 minutes to do a full contour versus Origin's 15 minutes. Then with your 3Shape scan file only, put that into the Origin design software (no need for the scanner, only the software) to DESIGN only because it's so fast. You could be pumping out full contour's in a few minutes with that combination...just a thought.
-Update's/Price - There is new updates coming down the pipe. We haven't had to pay for any of those at all, no yearly contract or update surcharge or whatever it is some of those other companies make you pay. To do implants there is around a 1K update that you have to pay for Origin, that's more for some the hardware that comes with it versus a charge for the extra software addition. I thought this should be mentioned because there is some companies that charge well over 2K for a yearly update and your scanner won't work if you don't pay it.
- Moving forward - So say you pay 8K, plus training, then you decide you want to open up your system...say because you bought a milling machine or want to use a different milling center. You pay the difference (13K minus depreciation), if you were to buy it outright. I think that's HUGE personally, so say if you grow with this technology and buy a milling or printer machine, then open it up and pay the amount. I think the added value of Origin saying they will depreciate the value (the 13K) is awesome. That means say you buy the closed system for 8K, then a few years down the road you buy a milling machine, you have to 'open' your scanner up for that milling machine to accept files and that would be another 13K to do, but Origin is saying they will depreciate it (because it's now so many years old) to a better price to open it up.
-Teamviewer - a program installed on your computer when you receive the scanner that allows B&D/Origin the ability to use your computer remotely. This is a nice feature because if you're having a problem with the software (scanning/designing) you can call them up and they can see EXACTLY what you are seeing. None of this is done without your permission though, they can't just go into your computer whenever they want but it's a nice feature, especially just starting out while you're learning.
-Great for starters. If you're a small lab that doesn't have a lot of money to invest (like me) or a big lab who is just getting into the digital aspect of it, then this might be to your liking. Once again, I'm not promoting Origin or this scanner, I'm not sure they can afford my big mouth. I'm just giving a quick assessment.
Con's -
- The 'scanning' portion is soooooo slow, it takes on average about/over 15 minutes to scan/design a full contour of anything.
- It has a couple of bugs in the system, it freezes up. I'm not sure if it's in the Origin software, the PC software, or it's an hardware issue but once in a great while it does it.
- Shipping - Was originally told 3 days if the scans were accepted by 11am. That means if I get them in by Monday at 11am, I will get them back on Wednesday but that isn't the case. They come back Thursday if the UPS doesn't screw something up. You can have an option for 10 dollars to have them shipped back sooner. Maybe that is the way I interpreted that conversation early on but I'm pretty sure I was given the Monday/Wednesday scenario.
- PMMA's (the hard wax) is what we mostly do and they lack anything close to accurate. I have to reseal the margins, redo anatomy and contour on some of them. This is what we mostly do, because it's cheaper and more productive to have one of my guys scan in a full contour (for e.max or full cast gold) instead of me hand waxing it. But there is a lack of quality there and I'm not sure it's a 'Mill' versus 'Print' issue. B&D mills there PMMA, I really think printing is much more accurate (you tell me?). We mostly do PMMA's with our scanner until our clients learn more and do more BruxZir, Zirconia, and start doing the custom implant abutments. If we increase our production anymore we will have to open up the system to get our PMMA's printed instead of milled because of this inaccuracy. Which might appear strange, how can your BruxZir and Zirconia be 100% accurate all the time and your PMMA's suck?...maybe some of you know. However, it's still faster and cost effective to have the PMMA's done this way. It takes about 1 minute to make the changes needed before you can throw a sprue lead on it to invest.
- Still waiting for the Implant Software to be updated. Was told this month so we have a couple weeks. My guys seen this software in Utah during there training in June and simply stated, "Rob you are going to LOVE IT". So this gets thrown into the con column because I'm as impatient as they come out there.
-Says void your warranty if you crack the PC case open...not sure you wireless guys will like that or if you need to install a hardware device that may have to be discussed.
-You'll need a glue gun (preferably) or you can use rubber bands to hold the models in centric while scanning full contour.
-Doesn't have anatomy libraries, don't have the ability to add them if you would like to add your own anatomy to it. It's a pro and con about this is why I put it in the Con's and Pro's.
-Only can do 8 copings at once. For the production guys out there, some of these scanners do 30 dies/copings in one scan session.
Okay, Jason (NicelyMKV) just bought this system as well, I'm sure he may add to this list along the way. I still consider ourselves in the infancy of our digital path but the wanting question everyone asks, was it worth it???? I can't answer that for you, I can't, I don't know your business model, the people you are working with if any, your adaptability to computers and/or the financial resources needed to partake in this journey. As for me right now, I will say yes, but I have a feeling I will be screaming "YES" when the implant update comes along. Here are some pictures of some cases that I presented to some of my clients where the screen shots of the 'designs' were useful in communication. One is a four unit bridge that I was trying to talk the Doctor in using some pink porcelain because 8,9,10 were just way too long (It was like a light bulb for him coming on when he seen this and went with pink porcelain). Another was a missing bicuspid and the Doc wanted to fill that space in with something, so we tricked the software in thinking it was a molar, case turned out great. Patient was 'thrilled' and had that case done with three other Dentists before the patient finally came to the right Doctor/Tech combo to get it done. Another picture is one where I didn't like the bite and was talking to the Doctor into going with something stronger because of the occlusal forces that the central would have on it during excursion movements. Then another picture to show how the design software tells you whether you're into occlusion and by how much, each color represents a measurement. I hope that helps, and to be honest, I'm sure Origin (B&D) will have something to say as well. This was long, I apologize, but if I was making this type of investment I would want something like this. All I ask in life is to be fair, and that's all this was, nothing more or less. Pictures below
I didn't take any videos, if you guys really want me to I will. I did take some pictures (below). This is after using this system for approximately two months. Please note that I didn't discuss anything to Origin (B&D) about what I'm going to share with you and they will probably love me or hate me after this. Unlike other folks, I only have 10K wrapped up in this adventure so I don't have to convince myself or anyone this was a good purchase. Please note and more importantly, that we are still in our infancy with this and I'll probably share something here that has already been addressed. So folks want to know if the scanner is worth it?????? Is it worth the 7,500 they area asking for it? Well let's clear that up real quick. It's not 'really' 7,500, because it's another 500 to have it shipped to your business. Then, unless you know Origin's software, you better plan on sending yourself and some your folks who want to be trained (which was another 2K for us, but depending how close you are to Utah that may be different). The training is a must, don't buy this machine thinking you're the best thing since sliced bread, go to it to fine tune and make yourself faster. I sent two of my guys out to Utah, very little dental knowledge but we had the machine almost three weeks before they went out there. I have to admit, through a few phone calls with 'Jim' at B&D my guys were scanning full contour consistently on a regular basis. That way when they went there it was more about homing in on the harder things to do in designing and scanning. So that brings us to the Pro's vs. Con's.
Pro's - The designing software is some of the fastest and most accurate I have seen on the market. The 'designing' portion of this scanner is FAST.
- The Price, you get a computer with the origin and windows installed ready to go with the scanner and all the technical advice you need for 8K at your doorstep.
-Technical advice, awesome, from the sales staff to the technical side. If you would like something added to the software on the next update then call up Jessie or Jim and they'll put it on the list. Jessie is the software designer (well him and his team) but you get to talk to the guy who designed it. Doesn't get much better than that.
-Accuracy, the zirconia and bruxzir (and I imagine the titanium as well) are accurate as all get out. I throw these under my scopes and they are just as good, if not better than what I cast. Most of you have seen my work, I'm a picky bastard
-The Price, very reasonable, the BruxZir's are 38 dollars, Zirconia copings 35 dollars, and PMMA's (a hard wax) are 7 dollars. That's to your doorstep, no shipping charges. When the implant software is released, they said you can get Titanium custom abutments for 125 dollars.
-Keeping it Simple, this is something that must be a pro because I've seen the vast anatomy libraries and all these options and those options on some of these scanners and guess what...this doesn't have that. It's friggin' simple.
-Communication - I take a ton of screen shots in the designing software and email those off to my Doctors to talk about a case. Within seconds or while they are on the phone I can change designs, take a screen shot, and email it to them while they are telling me about a new wine selection on the phone. Communication is HUGE with my clients, I know some labs out there shy away from this, but I have a big mouth and use it to my advantage.
-Production- I use to be in the big production labs, so let me run this scenario by you production folks if you're reading this. What about you use a 3Shape scanner to scan with, will take you less than 5 minutes to do a full contour versus Origin's 15 minutes. Then with your 3Shape scan file only, put that into the Origin design software (no need for the scanner, only the software) to DESIGN only because it's so fast. You could be pumping out full contour's in a few minutes with that combination...just a thought.
-Update's/Price - There is new updates coming down the pipe. We haven't had to pay for any of those at all, no yearly contract or update surcharge or whatever it is some of those other companies make you pay. To do implants there is around a 1K update that you have to pay for Origin, that's more for some the hardware that comes with it versus a charge for the extra software addition. I thought this should be mentioned because there is some companies that charge well over 2K for a yearly update and your scanner won't work if you don't pay it.
- Moving forward - So say you pay 8K, plus training, then you decide you want to open up your system...say because you bought a milling machine or want to use a different milling center. You pay the difference (13K minus depreciation), if you were to buy it outright. I think that's HUGE personally, so say if you grow with this technology and buy a milling or printer machine, then open it up and pay the amount. I think the added value of Origin saying they will depreciate the value (the 13K) is awesome. That means say you buy the closed system for 8K, then a few years down the road you buy a milling machine, you have to 'open' your scanner up for that milling machine to accept files and that would be another 13K to do, but Origin is saying they will depreciate it (because it's now so many years old) to a better price to open it up.
-Teamviewer - a program installed on your computer when you receive the scanner that allows B&D/Origin the ability to use your computer remotely. This is a nice feature because if you're having a problem with the software (scanning/designing) you can call them up and they can see EXACTLY what you are seeing. None of this is done without your permission though, they can't just go into your computer whenever they want but it's a nice feature, especially just starting out while you're learning.
-Great for starters. If you're a small lab that doesn't have a lot of money to invest (like me) or a big lab who is just getting into the digital aspect of it, then this might be to your liking. Once again, I'm not promoting Origin or this scanner, I'm not sure they can afford my big mouth. I'm just giving a quick assessment.
Con's -
- The 'scanning' portion is soooooo slow, it takes on average about/over 15 minutes to scan/design a full contour of anything.
- It has a couple of bugs in the system, it freezes up. I'm not sure if it's in the Origin software, the PC software, or it's an hardware issue but once in a great while it does it.
- Shipping - Was originally told 3 days if the scans were accepted by 11am. That means if I get them in by Monday at 11am, I will get them back on Wednesday but that isn't the case. They come back Thursday if the UPS doesn't screw something up. You can have an option for 10 dollars to have them shipped back sooner. Maybe that is the way I interpreted that conversation early on but I'm pretty sure I was given the Monday/Wednesday scenario.
- PMMA's (the hard wax) is what we mostly do and they lack anything close to accurate. I have to reseal the margins, redo anatomy and contour on some of them. This is what we mostly do, because it's cheaper and more productive to have one of my guys scan in a full contour (for e.max or full cast gold) instead of me hand waxing it. But there is a lack of quality there and I'm not sure it's a 'Mill' versus 'Print' issue. B&D mills there PMMA, I really think printing is much more accurate (you tell me?). We mostly do PMMA's with our scanner until our clients learn more and do more BruxZir, Zirconia, and start doing the custom implant abutments. If we increase our production anymore we will have to open up the system to get our PMMA's printed instead of milled because of this inaccuracy. Which might appear strange, how can your BruxZir and Zirconia be 100% accurate all the time and your PMMA's suck?...maybe some of you know. However, it's still faster and cost effective to have the PMMA's done this way. It takes about 1 minute to make the changes needed before you can throw a sprue lead on it to invest.
- Still waiting for the Implant Software to be updated. Was told this month so we have a couple weeks. My guys seen this software in Utah during there training in June and simply stated, "Rob you are going to LOVE IT". So this gets thrown into the con column because I'm as impatient as they come out there.
-Says void your warranty if you crack the PC case open...not sure you wireless guys will like that or if you need to install a hardware device that may have to be discussed.
-You'll need a glue gun (preferably) or you can use rubber bands to hold the models in centric while scanning full contour.
-Doesn't have anatomy libraries, don't have the ability to add them if you would like to add your own anatomy to it. It's a pro and con about this is why I put it in the Con's and Pro's.
-Only can do 8 copings at once. For the production guys out there, some of these scanners do 30 dies/copings in one scan session.
Okay, Jason (NicelyMKV) just bought this system as well, I'm sure he may add to this list along the way. I still consider ourselves in the infancy of our digital path but the wanting question everyone asks, was it worth it???? I can't answer that for you, I can't, I don't know your business model, the people you are working with if any, your adaptability to computers and/or the financial resources needed to partake in this journey. As for me right now, I will say yes, but I have a feeling I will be screaming "YES" when the implant update comes along. Here are some pictures of some cases that I presented to some of my clients where the screen shots of the 'designs' were useful in communication. One is a four unit bridge that I was trying to talk the Doctor in using some pink porcelain because 8,9,10 were just way too long (It was like a light bulb for him coming on when he seen this and went with pink porcelain). Another was a missing bicuspid and the Doc wanted to fill that space in with something, so we tricked the software in thinking it was a molar, case turned out great. Patient was 'thrilled' and had that case done with three other Dentists before the patient finally came to the right Doctor/Tech combo to get it done. Another picture is one where I didn't like the bite and was talking to the Doctor into going with something stronger because of the occlusal forces that the central would have on it during excursion movements. Then another picture to show how the design software tells you whether you're into occlusion and by how much, each color represents a measurement. I hope that helps, and to be honest, I'm sure Origin (B&D) will have something to say as well. This was long, I apologize, but if I was making this type of investment I would want something like this. All I ask in life is to be fair, and that's all this was, nothing more or less. Pictures below
Usually what I see, and I'll post some pictures if you'd like is that the margins are short/missing. They aren't open per say, just missing which is weird because all the BruxZir and zirconia are absolutely friggin' beautiful, the margin integrity is spot on. As for a different setting, that would have to be from B&D because when you send it off it asks what type of restoration. I thought maybe it was the milling process but now RileyS has me questioning that but that begs the question, if it's the scanner, then why does the BruxZir and Zirconia come out perfect but the PMMA doesn't??? However, if you use 3Shape it does...hmmmm? I don't know, but as I've shared this quick assessment with all of you, it is the first time B&D has seen it as well. So maybe there is a quick fix, I'll be sure to let you know if something changes.
