offshore pfms hurt! Now we feel FCZ

DRE

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Just a quick rant. The impact of outsourcing labs on "real" technicians has been tough but most of us have found a way to make it by finding doctors that care about quality and point of origin.

Pfm's were one thing. Recently we have had a dr. Retire and the recent grad that has come in decided to share the price list of a "lab" he had been using prior to buying the practice. He tells us yeah we can keep the work if we will match the pricing.

Full Contour Zirconia $38.00

Now pick your jaw back up off the floor. This was very disappointing. There was no argument to be made or any that he felt like hearing as he said fit/margins etc have been great.


So where is the freaking bottom? I thought for sure no lower than $75 as that is the lowest I've seen retailed to doctors.

Ugh, these slack jaw non-techs outsourcing is so damaging to the industry. Have any of you experienced a situation like this with a dr.? How did you handle it?
Should one just move on or fight for it and rationalize US made products?
 
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CoolHandLuke

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have some samples made of your best work. a nice test case. make them beautiful. bring it in to "discuss pricing"

outline that your product and all that comes from you is made locally, sourced locally and do your speech.

if/when the doc decides it is too much then leave a business card and move on.

in this instance i believe you have already lost; either the lab he deals with is chinese, or owned/run by a relative. besides which it has been my experience that it is the assistants and office personnel that direct the case out of the office. not usually the dentist unless it is special circumstances.

its up to you to sell yourself. in the teeth business the product doesnt sell itself. you can offer a lot more than the chinese. especially in terms of service, and rapport. so go out there, hold your product up high and own it. let whoever is too distracted by pennypinching go and lie in the bed they made.

it may take time but it will be like anyone who buys a cerec; eventually they come back. and you will have grown by then, possibly enough to more level-headedly evaluate a working contract.
 
DRE

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Thanks, I feel it may be a loss too. Just sick, have had the account for 15 years and the staff left behind is shocked as well.

We definitely sold our service/value more than the product when meeting the new guy. Is what it is I guess.

The other lab sends to China, I'd bet the farm on it. As their LLC was just set up, no brick and mortar location and has an out of state phone number. And operating out of a residential address.
 
CoolHandLuke

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i thought i saw somewhere fcz for 21$

oh well. no real difference.
 
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thats standard Chinese price from the Chinese lab itself.The dr is playing you we all know you cant match it it no one can except the asian lab direct. All you can do if this clown wants to seriously use this lab is point out that you will be available for the tough jobs like centrals etc thats what i did sometimes it works sometimes it dont.Have you noticed its always the new grad? or the new owner that does it as they feel they need clear all their debts in a year with zero regard for the patient these kind of dr's will do anything to save $50 but will happily spend the same amount on a bottle of wine at lunch.When you do get a central from this clown make sure you charge more and point out it has to be more because you cant average out the cost when you were doing all his work and dont repair or correct the asian stuff because he is running out of time it will make no difference he will send the next crown to asia anyway.
 
user name

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Ive had so many compliments the last few months...one Dr even pointed to his wedding ring and said 'our relationship is stronger than this'. I would have never said such a thing, and I know he'd die for his wife, but I get his point. Give everything youve got to being the best. We will be fine.
 
DRE

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thats standard Chinese price from the Chinese lab itself.The dr is playing you we all know you cant match it it no one can except the asian lab direct. All you can do if this clown wants to seriously use this lab is point out that you will be available for the tough jobs like centrals etc thats what i did sometimes it works sometimes it dont.Have you noticed its always the new grad? or the new owner that does it as they feel they need clear all their debts in a year with zero regard for the patient these kind of dr's will do anything to save $50 but will happily spend the same amount on a bottle of wine at lunch.When you do get a central from this clown make sure you charge more and point out it has to be more because you cant average out the cost when you were doing all his work and dont repair or correct the asian stuff because he is running out of time it will make no difference he will send the next crown to asia anyway.

I must say him playing me with that absurd price did cross my mind. Yeah I'm aware that cost savings is important to a new guy in a mound of debt but dang lets get real. You get what you pay for.

And yes user name, as long as we are doing the absolute best we are capable of things will be fine.
 
CoolHandLuke

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wow, that's amazing user!
 
Juko

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A client tried that with me. I told him I can not lower my prices because I have too much respect for myself, my team and my abilities. A year later he still sends me work not as many cases as I'm sure the easy cases get sent to the slut down the road. I've downsized to just myself moved the lab into my residence and will continue on for as long as I can. Only doing between 6-10 units a month keeps me going. I know I will probably not get any new clients as all the good docs are in a good relationship already and well the others are trying to find the cheapest slut lab and rack up a giant bill and move along to the next slut. Fml smh.
 
Tom Moore

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You must learn to compete in the world you manufacture and sell in.

The market could care less about our feelings about how its working.

We are not born dental techs and we can change if we must.

I do understand your concern but you must get beyond it.

We are buying small labs everywhere and updating them to compete in the market of today with a corporate backbone that can do anything being done out there.
 
K

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I would also add that a lot of this pricing pressure isn't just coming from offshore labs, its a large number of "On shore" labs too, you'd be surprised!
 
Tom Moore

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Small labs as a rule just do not know what the difference is between them and larger labs in the price of technology and materials involved.

The big lab is continually upgrading to faster easier to operate technologies and their costs per unit are decreasing faster than the small lab. This is being reflected in the selling price of more lab products every day.

The only way I see small labs surviving is they must carve out a place in the market other that competing with the volume output of the large domestic labs and the cheap labor costs of the offshore labs.
 
rkm rdt

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Shopping center dentists set up beside the dollar store to attract the same clients.



Small labs are not that small anymore. They have access to the same technologies but with better technical partners.
 
rc75

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I thinks it's odd that when people talk about outsourcing it's always directed at China. There's plenty of other places offering cheap crowns like the Phillipines, India, etc.
That's just my .2 cents.
 
PearlZ

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quite right.

but you so seldom see consumer reports of indonesian products with too much lead paint.

although sometimes the child labour for clothing thing pops up and that's a lot more common outside china. John Oliver had a great take on it.

 
DRE

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the post was titled "offshore" however it seems for the most part China is the leader in cheap labor cheap materials etc.
 
JKraver

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I thinks it's odd that when people talk about outsourcing it's always directed at China. There's plenty of other places offering cheap crowns like the Phillipines, India, etc.
That's just my .2 cents.
China is a generalized outsourcing term referring to the cheap outsourcing I have seen people refer product stamped "hecho en mexico" as cheap china sh*t. It is like asking for a coke, and getting the response what flavor. It can be dumb and incorrect, but welcome to America. Sign of the times.
 
Al.

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Outsourced prices are here in the USA now.

Ive seen plenty of $35 to $65 domestic fcz lab fees.

Many voices have been warning for many years !!!!!!! Like it our not Tom Moore has been a light house for 6 + years of what is coming and is already here.

There are plenty of sub $100 anterior crowns not just posterior FCZ.

Its not to late you must strive to set your self apart and learn to present your work to Drs. to show them value.
Give them a visual reason to send cases to you.

Just saying " I do quality work" is NOT effective anymore IMO.
What ever your skill level eye candy sells dentistry.

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rc75

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Outsourced prices are here in the USA now.

Ive seen plenty of $35 to $65 domestic fcz lab fees.

People have warning for many years !!!!!!! Like it our not Tom Moore has been a light house for 6 + years of what is coming and is already here.

There are plenty of sub $100 anterior crowns not just posterior FCZ.

Its not to late you must strive to set your self apart and learn to present your work to Drs. to show them value.
Give them a visual reason to send cases to you.

Just saying " I do quality work" is NOT effective anymore IMO





Al, you are 100% correct! Here in Southern California there are plenty of labs selling $30 PFM's & $59 FCZ to the doctors. I think you're absolutely correct in labs needing to break away from
"the norm" and show doctors why they should send their work to them.
 

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