Nobel Nacera on 3shape Design Nightmares

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Marcin K

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Does anyone have experience or tip and trick when designing Nobel zirconia products on 3shape? Recently we have been trying the Nobels Nacera All on 4 product that is direct to interface and ogh god are nobel's validation steps a nightmare. This is one of the reason we decided to stop doing Nobel ASC zirconia back in the day since something about Nobels DME just does not play nice with 3shape. I know some will say contact nobel but honestly i'm sick of getting some rep who keeps fishing for excuses and blaming 3shape for these issues.

I don't have these issues with DESS parts since they always work, especially with the DME they have released in the past year. I would try to mess with the manufacturing and validation setting but everything is locked so no luck there. My previous workflow used to have me design my all on 4 direct to interface on multiunit. We would then print and send to the dr a temporary to establish aesthetics and make sure occlusion is correct. Once all changes were made and or finalized I would modify the order from direct to interface to a Ti base and just go through the design steps while keeping my original design. This new process requires me to copy and append approved design and setup for nacera. I don't mind the added step of redesigning since this would typically only take maybe an hour at most, but since Introducing nobel, redesigning these cases can take a whole day for me to just trouble shoot why each case may not "validate".

Any help from those experienced with designing stuff for Nobel's manufactured products would be great.
 
npdynamite

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I know this isn't what you are looking for, but I have dealt with some of what you are dealing with and the unfortunate reality, this is just life working with Nobel. I would recommend pushing your account toward a 3rd party system. Nobel will just blame 3Shape for "tying their hands" in some bogus way. Nobels implant solutions are not very good and they're validations are not necessary and cause their libraries to be virtually unusable.
 
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Marcin K

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I know this isn't what you are looking for, but I have dealt with some of what you are dealing with and the unfortunate reality, this is just life working with Nobel. I would recommend pushing your account toward a 3rd party system. Nobel will just blame 3Shape for "tying their hands" in some bogus way. Nobels implant solutions are not very good and they're validations are not necessary and cause their libraries to be virtually unusable.
As much as I agree with you unfortunately I'm not the one who chooses what material we make things in. I'm just the guy that has to design it.
 
npdynamite

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As much as I agree with you unfortunately I'm not the one who chooses what material we make things in. I'm just the guy that has to design it.
I figured that might be the case, which is why I prefaced that my response is probably not what you are looking for. But hopefully it can give you something more to reference and maybe get a conversation going with the people who do make decisions about the concerns and limitations of the selected parts. This could lead to them making different decisions with any luck.

It has been a while since I have had to deal with their validations, but I will recall to the best of my ability the methods I found that helped me get through them whenever I was stuck using their products. You may already be aware of all this, but just in case.

If I am recalling my experience correctly the main issue that caused validation areas had to do with them having an inner validation being too close to the outer validation right where the design connects to the interface (the beginning of the emergence profile) I believe I found that identifying and smoothing bad triangles as well as carefully controlling the emergence profile is how I was able to get things validated most quickly. It is possible that my experience with this is outdated but I would look at that area and a method of setting up your emergence profile as a potential way to ease the pain.
 
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Marcin K

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I figured that might be the case, which is why I prefaced that my response is probably not what you are looking for. But hopefully it can give you something more to reference and maybe get a conversation going with the people who do make decisions about the concerns and limitations of the selected parts. This could lead to them making different decisions with any luck.

It has been a while since I have had to deal with their validations, but I will recall to the best of my ability the methods I found that helped me get through them whenever I was stuck using their products. You may already be aware of all this, but just in case.

If I am recalling my experience correctly the main issue that caused validation areas had to do with them having an inner validation being too close to the outer validation right where the design connects to the interface (the beginning of the emergence profile) I believe I found that identifying and smoothing bad triangles as well as carefully controlling the emergence profile is how I was able to get things validated most quickly. It is possible that my experience with this is outdated but I would look at that area and a method of setting up your emergence profile as a potential way to ease the pain.
you may be correct in some areas but unfortunately there is no solution to some of this. If anyone knows someone from Nobels that could actual reach out to someone who engineer's their DME that would be awsome. I added some screenshots of some issues
 

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Marcin K

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some more images of what I'm running into
 

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npdynamite

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ooh, yeah that is terrible. What I was dealing with was similar in nature, but it didn't have to do with bad geometry within what was being used as an object to validate against. I would still play with using the smooth tool on a intense but small diameter setting around the connection to see if it fixes any triangles that should be protected (I believe I have seen a bad piece of geometry outside of the protected area, which is connected to the protected area via a vertex, cause the arm extending into the protected area to change slightly. something like this could correct your issue, but it isn't that likely).

Beyond that, I would target trying to talk to someone at Nobels production facility in New Jersey rather than someone at the main office who you would typically get on a call like this. In my experience they tended to be more honest about things rather than giving a PR CYA response.
 
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for anyone wondering, this is how dess validation works compared to nobel. Nobel might work better on exocad but we don't use exocad here so I couldn't confirm anything regarding that.
 

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Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

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for anyone wondering, this is how dess validation works compared to nobel. Nobel might work better on exocad but we don't use exocad here so I couldn't confirm anything regarding that.
Marcin, are you a member of the 3Shape Facebook group? It's the best resource for all things 3 Shape. Especially for this issue specifically.

Full Disclosure: I loathe Facebook. I think they do great harm to our country and the world. I also think their groups are powerful ways to share information and enact positive change. So I never scroll my personal FB page anymore and just keep my account for groups like the 3Shape group, a Bourbon group, and a group that focuses on my local school boards. :)
 

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