New Sinter Oven Recommendations

[user name]

My day started with needing to install the 4th set of heating elements in my Dekema baSiC in just 2 years of service...using water based liquids and thoroughly drying every time. Not happy.

Im leaning towards the Mihm-vogt brand just from past reading, but all options are on the table. I don't expect that Ill be needing the super speed cycles; reliability, ease of programing, and not needing to be an electronics expert or going broke replacing elements or thermocouple are considerations. (the Dekema is simple, but costly)

Help.

 

[zero_zero]

Just changed the elements in my Sintra after four and half years of overnight runs... paid 1/3 of what uncle Hank had quoted me ... Have tried pretty much every staining liquid I could put my hands on...

 

[DentalTechTips]

Thermostar Sintering Furnace that I purchased as part of a package from Wieland I-mes in November of 2009. I've replaced the elements once. I've used water based, acid based, pre-colored and I've never had any issues. Doesn't have any speed cycles, but in my experience it has been extremely reliable, easy to program, and easy to service. I still have the original muffle, sinter plate and cover.

 

[RileyS]

Don't tell anyone this but, the brother furnace from china is doing great after 2.5 years of near nightly use. never changed anything.
I want to find a couple people with experience on the duo tron from origin.

 

[FrontHunter]

I have used shenpaz, sintra, and Dekema. Then I discovered DUO-TRON from B&D when they hired me to run their milling center. Hands down the only sintering furnace i would buy. They are absolute workhorses, and i have never seen a furnace put out a more translucent FCZ, period. I don't know exactly why they can get so much trans, but i have yet to see any crown that was sintered in any other furnace that compares. The Duo-Tron will give more translucency on a short 3 hour cycle than any competitors furnace on a long cycle. BTW I no longer work for them and would still only buy a DUO-TRON. You definitely have to test different cycles on every different duo-tron to find that "sweet spot". That is the only negative thing i can say though, for some reason each oven has a different "best temp/cycle" even if you check them with PTCR rings and the temp is the same. Its strange and I'm no BoB Cohen but he may be able to explain why this could happen. Still its not that big of a deal considering the results they can produce. I know everyone says its simply just a formula of transfer of energy and heating element life/buildup/contamination blah blah scientific blah. I know i should look into it further, but really just buy one you won't regret it, then call the milling center and ask them for their cycles. They are different than what the manufacturer recommends....ok thats all i have to say about that.

 

[2thm8kr]

So do you work for the furnace company now??

 

[FrontHunter]

Nope I actually am biting my tongue about how i feel about them, but its a personal issue i have with B&D as a former employer (not as a company in general) they are a good company overall....But No Fortunately..... . I am not affiliated with them in anyway (Thank God) but they hit the nail on the head with those duo trons. I don't even like to admit that they are as good as they are.

 

[user name]

For those using a Mihm-Vogt....do you have the option of a tray that doesn't use beads? I got one in the Dekema, not sure what its called...mellite? but it doesn't use beads.

 

[Car 54]

Thermostar Sintering Furnace that I purchased as part of a package from Wieland I-mes in November of 2009. I've replaced the elements once. I've used water based, acid based, pre-colored and I've never had any issues. Doesn't have any speed cycles, but in my experience it has been extremely reliable, easy to program, and easy to service. I still have the original muffle, sinter plate and cover.

I wonder if they were discontinued when Ivoclar bought out Wieland, and were replaced with the Programat ovens? Or if it was re-branded into the Programat line up?

 

[Car 54]

For those using a Mihm-Vogt....do you have the option of a tray that doesn't use beads? I got one in the Dekema, not sure what its called...mellite? but it doesn't use beads.

That's still what I'm considering when I buy a oven from reading the past forums, a Mihm-Vogt or a Sintra Plus.

 

[corona]

user ... can i ask about the reason why you think the elements are failing ? Could you be buying another oven only to transfer the problem there ? For me , Ive been using ZZs sinter oven i got like 6 years ago ....Love the oven . Love that its 11O outlet . Love that its still working > no jinx < Love that I can replace the elements when needed ( done 3 elements in that time . ) and have changed the braided wiring that connects the elements to each other . The frayed braided wiring was the reason one of my elements went out , it was overheating at the frayed part and sending some sort of signal to heat that element incorrectly thus causing it to crack . Only other reason I had issues was because I was opening the oven prematurely due to time constraints and I think that is what caused the failure of the other ones . I still do it every now and then but never open the chamber if its over 500 degrees . I was opening the chamber at around 700 to try and cool it down faster ... learned the hard way not to do that ! The only thing I dont like about the ZZ oven is the programs are preset and cannot be altered . Cannot edit or change temps to coinside with newer materials . Regards .

 

[Car 54]

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The only thing I dont like about the ZZ oven is the programs are preset and cannot be altered . Cannot edit or change temps to coinside with newer materials . Regards .

For me, that would probably be a deal breaker, especially with all the other manufacturers constantly evolving and improving the zirconia.

 

[user name]

user ... can i ask about the reason why you think the elements are failing ? Could you be buying another oven only to transfer the problem there ? For me , Ive been using ZZs sinter oven i got like 6 years ago ....Love the oven . Love that its 11O outlet . Love that its still working > no jinx < Love that I can replace the elements when needed ( done 3 elements in that time . ) and have changed the braided wiring that connects the elements to each other . The frayed braided wiring was the reason one of my elements went out , it was overheating at the frayed part and sending some sort of signal to heat that element incorrectly thus causing it to crack . Only other reason I had issues was because I was opening the oven prematurely due to time constraints and I think that is what caused the failure of the other ones . I still do it every now and then but never open the chamber if its over 500 degrees . I was opening the chamber at around 700 to try and cool it down faster ... learned the hard way not to do that ! The only thing I dont like about the ZZ oven is the programs are preset and cannot be altered . Cannot edit or change temps to coinside with newer materials . Regards .

I have no idea why theyre failing. Im doing everything by the book, and then some. The failed elements have been sent back to Dekema for analysis, but other than a refund I haven't been told anything. Jensen has stood behind me and kept me running, but I think theyre wondering the same thing.

 

[DentalTechTips]

I wonder if they were discontinued when Ivoclar bought out Wieland, and were replaced with the Programat ovens? Or if it was re-branded into the Programat line up?

I think i-mes icore still uses thermostar furnaces. Wieland and i-mes had a pretty nasty split a few years before Wieland was acquired by ivoclar if I recall correctly.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Car 54]

I'm not trying to hy-jack your thread, user name, but it's along the same line...has anyone used the Talladium Mastermill sintering oven? Is it any good?
Supposedly it's what they use in their milling center.

 

[user name]

I'm not trying to hy-jack your thread, user name, but it's along the same line...has anyone used the Talladium Mastermill sintering oven? Is it any good?
Supposedly it's what they use in their milling center.

All sinter equipment talk is fair game.

user ... can i ask about the reason why you think the elements are failing ? Could you be buying another oven only to transfer the problem there ? For me , Ive been using ZZs sinter oven i got like 6 years ago ....Love the oven . Love that its 11O outlet . Love that its still working > no jinx < Love that I can replace the elements when needed ( done 3 elements in that time . ) and have changed the braided wiring that connects the elements to each other . The frayed braided wiring was the reason one of my elements went out , it was overheating at the frayed part and sending some sort of signal to heat that element incorrectly thus causing it to crack . Only other reason I had issues was because I was opening the oven prematurely due to time constraints and I think that is what caused the failure of the other ones . I still do it every now and then but never open the chamber if its over 500 degrees . I was opening the chamber at around 700 to try and cool it down faster ... learned the hard way not to do that ! The only thing I dont like about the ZZ oven is the programs are preset and cannot be altered . Cannot edit or change temps to coinside with newer materials . Regards .

One thing I think is odd...from what I gather, all your sinter ovens have a bowl and lid (?),but the Dekema doesn't. There is a bowl, but the crowns sit on the lid/ exposed to the elements....unless Im completey doing things wrong, but its how I was instructed but the company I purchased from.

 

[charles007]

Don't quote me on this !! I was told years ago the elements in Dekema ovens last a short time and are meant to be replaced regularly and are priced lower. Elements in the Mighn Vogt ovens are made
to last for many many years and are very expensive, aprox $600. each... Smaller Mihm oven has 4 elements, large Mihm has 6 elements. Seems like a set of 4 elements are aprox $2100.00
I know the new Dekema ovens elements are meant to be replaced regularly with the option of speed sintering.
Yes the Mihm has a speed cycle and using speed cycle will shorten the life of the elements,,, any brand of elements for that matter..
Apparently Mihm elements last for years because no one talks about replacing them of the many Mihm users on DLN...

 

[user name]

Don't quote me on this !! I was told years ago the elements in Dekema ovens last a short time and are meant to be replaced regularly and are priced lower. Elements in the Mighn Vogt ovens are made
to last for many many years and are very expensive, aprox $600. each... Smaller Mihm oven has 4 elements, large Mihm has 6 elements. Seems like a set of 4 elements are aprox $2100.00
I know the new Dekema ovens elements are meant to be replaced regularly with the option of speed sintering.
Yes the Mihm has a speed cycle and using speed cycle will shorten the life of the elements,,, any brand of elements for that matter..
Apparently Mihm elements last for years because no one talks about replacing them of the many Mihm users on DLN...

Its about $900 bucks to replace the pair in the Dekema. Ive been told that in a Mihm-Vogt you can replace a single element when needed, no need to replace the full set?

 

[charles007]

Its about $900 bucks to replace the pair in the Dekema. Ive been told that in a Mihm-Vogt you can replace a single element when needed, no need to replace the full set?

I'm no expert but I know a milling lab that replaced 1 or either 2 elements after aprox 5 years of heavy usage///

Yes you can

 

[ceram1]

Jensen is pretty upfront about the life span of the Dekema Basic Elements. We have the basic and ours are still rocking after almost four years. We bought spares 3 years ago......... I think there are 3 factors that are important. 1- All of our programs are slow up and slow down. 2- Pre-dry before firing the units. 3-LUCK!!. We have replaced a main control board right away under warranty, a thermocouple, and the flash memory recently. I really like this furnace, easy and accurate.