New Orthodontic Clasps

[Inman Labs]

Hello All:

I am here asking for your help and opinions.

I designed a new clasp a few years ago and have spent a ton of money trying to bring this clasp to market. It simply is two ball clasps joined by an adjustable bridge, we call it the I-Clasp. The idea is that only two sizes would be needed, molar and bicuspid.
It is easy to adapt to the working model and very easy for the clinician to adjust.

Here is my question:
The cost to manufacturer the clasp dictates that I would have to charge $1.50 per clasp. Do you think anyone would pay this much?
Please everyone give your opinions....

Question # 2
One of my guys redesigned my clasp to be made with a single wire, we call it the M-Clasp. It is sort of like an Adams Clasp but with the same adjustable bridge and again only two sizes are needed.

It will cost around .25 or the same as Adams Clasps.
Will any of you use it?

I am ready to kill the I-Clasp and walk away from almost 20K spent on prototypes, legal fees and engineering costs. Is this the right thing to do????

Thanks in advance for your honest answers.

Don

 

[RetainerDesigner]

Tough Decision! I would not want to make it.
$1.50 per clasp does seem like a lot, but I would just pass that on to my doctors. I would charge like an extra $2.00 per I-Clasp from the doctor. If these clasps are as revolutionary as I think they will be from an assistant's standpoint, I dont think the doctors will mind paying an extra $4 dollars per retainer if it saves them or their assistants some chair time adjusting. Or even saving training time teaching the assistants on how to adjust retainers.

The good thing is that when you order you will only need one size for the molar! No more ordering 4 bags (size 7,8,9,10)of preformed clasps. So there is some cost saving to offset the price of a one-size-fits-all clasp. I started just making my own Adams clasps because it saves on keeping different sizes in stock and because a lot of my doctors use wraps instead of standard Hawleys. But with a one size fits all I could easily keep a stock of preformed I-Clasps or M-Clasps.

As far as the M-Clasps, That price is more desirable, I agree. Labs could just switch out to these types instead of adams almost with out informing their doctors. No price changes. To be honest the M-Clasps looks more easly copied in the lab. I wonder how many labs would just make there own M-Clasps? If it is possible to do so. The I-Clasps looks more impossible to copy in the lab.

I wonder if you could offer both types like they do with ball clasp? A standard type ( M-Clasp) and a superior or premium type (I-Clasp). I could see some advantages the I-Clasp has over the M-Clasp. ( ex. pedo cases)

If you do decide to l drop the I-Clasp at least all your money you spent on prototypes, legal fees and engineering costs still lead you to the M-Clasp. I wonder if your guy who came up with the M-Clasp would have come up with that design if he never saw the I-Claps in development?

Well that my 2 cents, remember I'm a young lab, only a few years old, it will be interesting what some of the "old geezers" here have to say.
Personally I would like to see both types of clasps make it to the market, but I know that might not be feasible.

Cade

 

[labdude]

Geezers!!! Who you talkin' bout Cade??
Market them both Don. Let the market decide. It will let you know.

Me.... I seem to be trouble, now and again. I'm not really, just playful and not afraid to say anything about anything.
With that, I have in the recent and distant past, made the ball clasp variation, only with a straight wire without the 1/2 loop. Drs. have asked for best retention possible on a tough to retain case. Generally, next to nothing for interproximal, very shallow.
Those I clasps are great for retaining difficult to retain cases. That type clasp is what I would use if I felt that a crozat type might "bite" to much into the interproximal. Also I would use a duyzing (sp, I gave the book that has that clasp to rs promotions) and somtimes also solder the duyzing, which would then look like a crozat clasp, without the same structure.

As for buying pre-made anything. I think I have mentioned before, the only pre-made things I use are ball clasps, Herbst jumps etc. that can't be readily made in lab. True it might take nano seconds more time to make an adams clasp from straight wire, but, I do this because preformed parts like labial bows and adams clasps are made from a softer wire. And therefore are more prone to deforming with insertion and removal by the patient.

Again, don't kill the goodies you are working on, let the market decide. You have gone this far and spent this much, so...why stop??
Stay kind the way you are now, to us smaller labs. We as you know won't be making to big a dent in the profits of GL or AOA etc. by producing things that look like, or are exactly like certain tm goodies. Makes us sort of seem like roaches, turn on the light and we scatter. We're you friend, you stay are friend. Anybody comes on this site trying to market your clasps or tm goodies will be firmly dealt with. However, if someone like Cade for instance, makes a ball clasp goody clasp form scratch, I'm o.k. with that. I will not be o.k. with somebody coming to this site and badmouthing Inman products because some they can be made in lab.
That type of thing happens Don, you bring it to my attention if you see it or feel it has happened, it will be dealt with. I know it can be a touchy area, I want to be fair to everyone.
Please don't be afraid to respond to me as you feel, that goes for everyone. Just keep it clean, unlike 95 years, he is on vacation from the site. Take a look at his posts if you like.
Mike.

 

[Inman Labs]

Mike and Cade:

Thanks for your support!!

The idea of the preformed clasps is to save time and create a consistent product.
I or anyone who will sell these clasps could not make any claims against anyone making their own versions of either of these clasps by hand.

We would try to protect ourselves from anyone from mass producing the clasps but I have no issues with anyone making their own as one offs. If any of you wish to try the prototypes of either of these clasps email me for free samples. I only have the M-Claps in a upper molar size but I have a lot of them, the universal molar size is being produced but I am not sure when I will have them, same with the universal bicuspid size.

As for the I-Clasp I have a few of the molar size but I am not happy with them, I will give them to you for evaluation purposes. If you don't mind being Beta testers?

A few large companies have approached me wanting to have exclusivity of both designs but I have learned my lesson with the IPC. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!!!!!!!!

Thanks again for your comments, I will take it all in before making a final decision.

Regards,
Don

 

[labdude]

Hi Don,
Yup....the "M" clasp mass production would probably be less expensive than the "I" clasp.
I was thinking, for about 2 seconds, that you could have an employee sit and spot those "I" clasps together per order you receive. If an employee wanted to work for 1.50 an hour. On top of the quality control issues, even with a manufacturer, those joints have to be right.
What the hell, some larger operations want an exclusive to sell the "M" or "I", more bucks for you. You now know what to expect and how better to deal with it. If they want to give you money for a 10 year of so "exclusive" go for it. The Inman Aligner goody bought you a couple of lunches I would think.
As for making the "I" clasp, for a single case, adapt the ball clasps and tack weld them to a straight cross wire to connect the ball clasps. Then a small bit of solder at the tack joints. It's quick and easy. But easier with a hot flame that will do the job quickly. Butane doesn't heat well enough to get the job done right without over heating things, and solder flowing to places you don't want it to go, like the ball part of the clasp.
Have a good day,
Mike.