Need an advice to buy first mill for a small lab

Saluki

Saluki

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Whatever you decide really do your research due diligence on support. You will want answers and not I don’t know. Good luck
 
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grantoz

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imes mill i have heard mixed reports about them i think you should get a mill that can mill ti, honestly for a beginner mill look at the zirkonzahn m1 it can mill metal emax crco zi plastic wet and dry you also get abutment blanks for them with premilled interfaces they mill them with the same machines that the big implant companies use to mill their abutments with.its also all exocad based.
 
Wainwright

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imes mill i have heard mixed reports about them i think you should get a mill that can mill ti, honestly for a beginner mill look at the zirkonzahn m1 it can mill metal emax crco zi plastic wet and dry you also get abutment blanks for them with premilled interfaces they mill them with the same machines that the big implant companies use to mill their abutments with.its also all exocad based.

ZZ makes great machines. Do they still use the non-standard 95 mm block size? Its not a such a concern if you are getting good money for your restorations but if you have downward pricing pressure its a bit limiting to be stuck with 95mm.

Hi guys hope you help me out decide which mill to buy , I'm starting a small lab but I want to be able to do all types of fixed prosthesis , mainly zirconia and emax and ocasionally milled hard metal and PEEK , what mill (and setup) do you advice me to get , I've been considering yenadent D15 , VHF K5 and Zikonzahn M5 .

Any advice is welcome
Thanks

My personal opinion is that you should always buy for the majority use, not the less common. What I mean specifically if you are looking to just mill zirconia, PMMA, PEEK, and wax for lost wax patterns it might be best to save a few bucks and headaches and buy a dry milling machine. The moment you get into the market for something that can mill emax blue block and metals you get into a new class of machine that is expensive to run and maintain. Learning CAM and milling is difficult enough without wet milling hard materials.

If you try to get a budget metal mill it will be nothing but problems and disappointment with fits. Once you do start having some consistent dry milled product coming through production and the next need is a metal mill you will have learned so much in the process that the next step will be so much easier. Also adding a second mill just for wet milling will give you redundancy in the workflow, which is greatly underappreciated generally. You will quickly find that you will become so reliant on milling that any interruption will be catastrophic for your dental lab...

Will a dry mill just for zirconia produce a positive ROI on the investment? Do it, buy a dry mill.
Does your ROI depend on being able to do ZR, emax, metal and PEEK? Maybe think about continuing to outsource.

Last point. Milling emax kind of stinks, it beats milling machines up, the blocks are super expensive unless you get ivoclars mill, and the milling tools are BIG money. If you, or the machine, messes up and breaks a tool on a single emax unit it can quickly turn your profit on a case upside-down. And drill compensation is huge when milling blue block if you only have 1 mm for vertical you can kiss 0.3mm to 0.4 in space good bye in just drill comp.
 
Wainwright

Wainwright

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Oh, and if you are a really small lab, let's say less than 10 people. I'd really recommend not getting into wet milling. Do the easy dry stuff.

Let the milling centers with 100k+ machines do the metal for you.

Okay, end of rant.
 
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grantoz

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wainwright i hear your pain but i respectively disagree with you .having had the curse of 95mm blocks for over ten years now im ok with it.i have used after market blocks in the past when needed its not that hard to find them as internationally Zirkonzahn is very popular .But what i find with ZZ they have always had the latest and greatest anyway as far as price yes they are more expensive but not to the point that i would change their stuff is just better in my humble opinion.If you are going up against crowns from China that range from 25 -50 dollars no matter what material you use or how much you pay per block you can never compete on price . With ZZ you know the zirk is going to fit and not beak you know the colours are going to be ok . their mills mill metal well if you are a small lab independence is everything i agree milling emax blue blocks are a killer but milling wax a pressing is great. the peek from ZZ is great. Ive had plenty of techs wish they could use ZZ materials in their 98mm machines not the other way around. We all have price pressure on us even Willy Gellar
 
Wainwright

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wainwright i hear your pain but i respectively disagree with you .having had the curse of 95mm blocks for over ten years now im ok with it.i have used after market blocks in the past when needed its not that hard to find them as internationally Zirkonzahn is very popular .But what i find with ZZ they have always had the latest and greatest anyway as far as price yes they are more expensive but not to the point that i would change their stuff is just better in my humble opinion.If you are going up against crowns from China that range from 25 -50 dollars no matter what material you use or how much you pay per block you can never compete on price . With ZZ you know the zirk is going to fit and not beak you know the colours are going to be ok . their mills mill metal well if you are a small lab independence is everything i agree milling emax blue blocks are a killer but milling wax a pressing is great. the peek from ZZ is great. Ive had plenty of techs wish they could use ZZ materials in their 98mm machines not the other way around. We all have price pressure on us even Willy Gellar

Good points. There are no easy answers, there are always good and bad things with everything in dental CAD CAM. I've always held ZZ in high regard for their build quality and really unique approach to solving many dental lab manufacturing problems.

I've always been a bit confused by ZZs product line, what do they have for a low cost dry 5 axis solution?
 
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KIM

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Oh, and if you are a really small lab, let's say less than 10 people. I'd really recommend not getting into wet milling. Do the easy dry stuff.

Let the milling centers with 100k+ machines do the metal for you.

Okay, end of rant.
What he said......Spot on Sam.....
 
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grantoz

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Wainwright the M1 is their low cost option, i dont know how much it is in your country but i think it was about 50000 euro for scanner ,wet mill heavy option and software a couple of years back ,you dont need to be stuffing around getting it to talk to each part as its a turn key solution you set it up and away you go. if you want to go really low cost but very old school there is the hand milling option but i would only recommend this as a back up .All jokes aside i was doing full arch implant bridges with this when others could only 3 unit traditional bridges it was a great start at understanding Zirconia.I hope this helps.
 
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rookiee

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Get a Roland, Hyperdent and proper support and leave milling metal to others. I send metal for SLM and it works just fine, needed milling on occasions I do that, everything else is printed or milled inhouse. Roland is a workhorse for usual lab...
 
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