More Random Pictures

[TheLabGuy]

Was doing some samples today. Can you tell which bicuspid that has porcelain is a Captek or a E.Max MO?

Sorry about the pics, still working on it.

 

[yooper886]

I am just a removable tech but I would say that the crown laying beside the model is an E.Max crown? Thanks for the clue!

 

[TheLabGuy]

I am just a removable tech but I would say that the crown laying beside the model is an E.Max crown? Thanks for the clue!

LOLOLOLOL

 

[Al.]

I think it is the top one, because it is darker from the blue die stone coming through?

 

[Al.]

Rob you said you are putting on a lunch and learn at a Drs office on another thread. What are you going to take for food? Cold cuts and deli stuff or hot food?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Rob you said you are putting on a lunch and learn at a Drs office on another thread. What are you going to take for food? Cold cuts and deli stuff or hot food?

What I do is pick a deli "I know" serves good food and send the staff a menu a week before. They get back with me with a list, I order it that morning, and their eating it while I'm informing their heads of mush with great dental laboratory knowledge.......lol

 

[Al.]

What I do is pick a deli "I know" serves good food and send the staff a menu a week before. They get back with me with a list, I order it that morning, and their eating it while I'm informing their heads of mush with great dental laboratory knowledge.......lol

Does the deli deliver everything for you?
Is it going to be all you talking or do you have some kind of visual aid also?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Does the deli deliver everything for you?
Is it going to be all you talking or do you have some kind of visual aid also?

I pick the stuff up at the deli, some do deliver though, and if it's a subway thing I just go early to subway with orders in hand.

As for visual aids, yes, sometimes I do powerpoints (not that much anymore) and I have tons of brochures, flyers, articles, advertisement and marketing stuff. I put it in a large envelope for each employee and sit down and discuss each thing while they are eating and looking at the various literature. The one I'm doing Tuesday is about All-Ceramics. So I got some prep-guides, sample cases, plus that table I put on here, plus I have a step by step process and I go through it with the assistants. Including the assistants really helps because you begin a bonding process with them. Most times its not about the Doctor, it's the assistants who decide what cases go to which lab. Anymore questions?

 

[Al.]

I pick the stuff up at the deli, some do deliver though, and if it's a subway thing I just go early to subway with orders in hand.

As for visual aids, yes, sometimes I do powerpoints (not that much anymore) and I have tons of brochures, flyers, articles, advertisement and marketing stuff. I put it in a large envelope for each employee and sit down and discuss each thing while they are eating and looking at the various literature. The one I'm doing Tuesday is about All-Ceramics. So I got some prep-guides, sample cases, plus that table I put on here, plus I have a step by step process and I go through it with the assistants. Including the assistants really helps because you begin a bonding process with them. Most times its not about the Doctor, it's the assistants who decide what cases go to which lab. Anymore questions?

No but thanks, like you say "Im just curious is all".

Im going to take bets that you leave with a key to the office.

 

[TheLabGuy]

No but thanks, like you say "Im just curious is all".

Im going to take bets that you leave with a key to the office.

I hope brother, it's a local account, I like the local ones, its the out of state ones that make it hard and I'm glad you're curious.

 

[JohnWilson]

That Captek cope sure appears to not have proper support for porc.

Not trying to be an ass but metal support is critical to the success long term of this product.

Sure want to hear how the lunch and learn goes for you. Share some tips on what works and what was a waste of time.

 

[Al.]

Heres my opinion, tell me what you think. i dont know about capteks but I have read all the textbooks and manufactors recommendations on metal design. My latest one is Ivoclars inline manual. It has even gone as far as showing metal support for the cusp of carabelli. They recommend one way is to wax a full crn then cut back. Your talking about a seriously engineered coping for a pfm. I think some of that is them covering their a## so they dont get blamed for fractures.

My longest account is my father. Ive been doing his work for 31 yrs. Besides the sharp cusp tips and D edges of some anteriors shearing off and having to be smoothed off in the mouth, where I have seen fractures is all teeth of bruxers and lower molars, esp. 2nd molars and esp on the DL of them, and on implants with out proper support.

With our modern materials I dont see alot of fractures in upper molars or bi's or anteriors.
I always extend my metal on those contacts I need to streach to close the gap and I make my anteriors bulbius on the M & D for support and of course on cases with a ton of room I add more wax, on all bruxers and 2nd molars I build support cusps.
On everyting else uppers, lower bi's etc I dip and seal the coping.
There is just not enough money in this business or I should say there are not enough Drs willing to pay the price it would cost me to make one of those enginered text book substructures for every pfm I make.

I think that the occlusal contacts on pfms are more important. Having occlusion in centric only and 0 interferences on my crns in working prevent alot of fratures.

What do you think?

 

[JohnWilson]

What do you think?

I think a lot of what you say is 100% dead on balls accurate.. There are cad cam machines already that can design full contour and cut back to give you specific thickness of porc. Will this make things more predictable? Could be. Will it make the waxer obsolete? Eventually.

Too many of the things that are tedious to us today will be a click of the mouse down the line. Truthfully I have seen so many changes in the last 10 years as it relates to production in this business and I think we are just starting to see what is possible for tomorrow. Virtual models, are here. Ceramics that can be sprayed like ink jet cartridges will be here soon. One day new types of composites will likely replace glass and the idea of using a brush to build up a crown will seem so ridiculous.

As for TODAY, I fight my waxers every day to think anatomical and try and mimic a shrunken crown so that support is were it should be.

 

[TheLabGuy]

What do you think?

Agree on most of it. This goes to Johns comment as well about the Captek. I use d.Sign porcelain as you two know, that stuff is very technique sensitive, however, I can get almost all my single units in one build. How you ask? Proper metal support and it has to be spot on for d.sign porcelain to do this.

As for Captek, captek gets its strength from the porcelain, not the substructure...therefore you gotta have at least 1.5 mm porcelain on occlusion or it will fracture. I reject many cases for Captek due to this, then the Dentist gets mad when another lab does it w/out proper porcelain thickness and it fractures....go figure. As for putting d.Sign on Captek, gotta always do two builds....

Will cad/cam ever do away with the technician........NEVER.....at least for the technicians that do art and realize it's artistry they do everyday.

 

[Al.]

Yeah Ive done a bunch of captek and the danger I saw with doing one bake on them is they would every once in a while squeeze the coping. It seemed like it was usually at the margins.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Yeah Ive done a bunch of captek and the danger I saw with doing one bake on them is they would every once in a while squeeze the coping. It seemed like it was usually at the margins.

Yeah, that happens. When it does, just re-swedge it with the swedger while the porcelain is on it and your all set, problem fixed.

 

[JohnWilson]

Yeah, that happens. When it does, just re-swedge it with the swedger while the porcelain is on it and your all set, problem fixed.

I wanna hear about this technique. I have never swedged a captek after it has been deformed by too large an initial bake. We always do two bakes after a few lifted margins when we originally started using the product. It appears the new material is stronger and we rarely ever get a cope to warp now days.

Can you share what it looks like after the swedge?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Can you share what it looks like after the swedge?

Sure.........If I add Porcelain to a captek crown and margin lifts, I go ahead and finish it like I would normally. Heck, I'd even go ahead and do the second bake as well. Now for the critical point. Just before you're ready to glaze, SWEDGE IT, and smack it, seriously, hit the swedger hard. The porcelain will fracture but WILL NOT delaminate off the coping and your margin is perfect once again. Then just glaze it. During the glazing process all the cracks will disappear and you won't have to suffer that migraine that was clearly beginning. Try it, and you're right the Universal Nano is much stronger (30%) which stops that, but a little tougher to apply to the refractory die.