Milling wax veneers

A

adamb4321

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#1
I know there is a similar thread running on this. I’ve got 3-3 case of wrap around veneers. I’ve milled three times but the results are poor. I’ve got the edge set to 0.2mm to give some thickness but I’m getting a lot of chipping. The nature of the preps makes some undercut areas, so fitting the patterns to the dies isn’t really working either.

I’m thinking maybe get them printed instead? Any thoughts on this? Other than that I’m hand waxing them, which will be a pain too.
 
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Jason D

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#2
Mill them thick and reduce by hand. Not a great option but not a lot of choice given that limited space in those conditions
 
millennium

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#3
I know there is a similar thread running on this. I’ve got 3-3 case of wrap around veneers. I’ve milled three times but the results are poor. I’ve got the edge set to 0.2mm to give some thickness but I’m getting a lot of chipping. The nature of the preps makes some undercut areas, so fitting the patterns to the dies isn’t really working either.

I’m thinking maybe get them printed instead? Any thoughts on this? Other than that I’m hand waxing them, which will be a pain too.
Oh my GOD, not the hand wax!Eviltongue
 
Car 54

Car 54

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#5
Base out any undercuts you can. Even though I have a 4 axis mill and it's not going to mill undercuts, I base them out in wax pre scan anyway.
This week I had a case for 6 veneers. I milled these at 7/10ths using TD Dental grey wax and pressed them with excellent results. I pretty much left them at 7/10ths in wax and after pressing, as I was blocking out ND4 prep shade for a A1 case.

veneers.PNG
 
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TheLabGuy

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#6
I guess I'm old school, but I prefer hand waxing my veneers, especially wrap around margins (usually done to move teeth mesially or distally). Being the ceramist as well, I feel more intimate with the case...ponder that one on a Sunday for ya :)
 
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user name

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#7
Don't store your wax in the fridge or on a shelf attached to an external wall. Clean your burs. Make sure you select 'Wax' for your parameters so speeds are slower. Even if you have some undercuts, on a 4 axis mill you can position the undercuts along the Y axis. The puck holder can tilt a few degrees either way on the Y and get a good mill.
 
A

adamb4321

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#8
Yes, the dreaded hand wax. Back in the day I hand waxed what felt like a million Dicor veneers.

On the face of it this case should have been straight forward, provisionals to copy, preps that at first glance look good. The reality is not quite enough reduction between the teeth, undercut areas and darkish preps.

I wish I'd just built them up on refractory now.
 
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adamb4321

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#9
Car54, I'm just looking at your puck. I've been nesting my veneers in a more vertical plane, normally works ok. I'll try the horizontal attitude like yours. I think I'm going to redefine the margins to loose some of the undercut. Which pellet did you use to block out ND4 for A1?
 
Z

ztech

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#10
Car54, I'm just looking at your puck. I've been nesting my veneers in a more vertical plane, normally works ok. I'll try the horizontal attitude like yours. I think I'm going to redefine the margins to loose some of the undercut. Which pellet did you use to block out ND4 for A1?
I also use a higher wax content for Veneers. They seem to come out better. I routinely mill at .4. I usually layer the labial surface on max anteriors.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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#11
Car54, I'm just looking at your puck. I've been nesting my veneers in a more vertical plane, normally works ok. I'll try the horizontal attitude like yours. I think I'm going to redefine the margins to loose some of the undercut. Which pellet did you use to block out ND4 for A1?
It was Noritake CZR Press LT (Low Translucent) NW0.5. I went light to help keep from a A1 press in getting to dark, or lower value. I'm pretty sure you could use an emax LT BL4 at 7/10ts and be just fine. I use prep colored die spacer so it helps to keep track of how much I can thin it out in the pressed state to be able to layer more porcelain.
 
A

adamb4321

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#12
I remilled the veneers this morning. Nested them in a horizontal attitude rather than vertical and used a different wax. Pleased to say a very good result.

Car54 i pressed with LTBL3, should look ok with some layering.
 
Al.

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#13
Ohhhhhhhh print them !!!!!!
They come out beautiful and thin !!!!!

Hand waxing no way
No more.
Printed resin is so nice I can contour with acrylic bur and do precision cut backs if layering with a disk then press.

So freaking fast and easy
 
CoolHandLuke

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#14
Don't store your wax in the fridge or on a shelf attached to an external wall. Clean your burs. Make sure you select 'Wax' for your parameters so speeds are slower. Even if you have some undercuts, on a 4 axis mill you can position the undercuts along the Y axis. The puck holder can tilt a few degrees either way on the Y and get a good mill.
good info, i only want to say its not always a good idea to go slower. there is a relationship between how fast your spindle spins, and how quickly it moves point-to-point. this relationship is referred to by many CAM softwares as Cutting speed (as opposed to Spindle speed, or Table feed which are the factors of Cutting speed)

varying a single parameter of Cutting speed can be good, but also can be bad. in soft materials like zirconia and wax and plastic it is highly advantageous to use high cutting speed, especially if the machine can be kept vibration-free. in hard materials these kinds of high speed passes sometimes arent feasable.

for wax though, much as with plastic you want to push through the material quickly so that the spindle doesnt sit on any area long enough to create residual heat and melt the wax. too slow and you can have material "gum up" the tools.

for thin things though, no matter really what it is, veneers in wax, or thin zirconia, or thin titanium copings, avoiding chipping is the biggest objective, and the best guarantee of that is sharp clean NEW tools.
 
CoolHandLuke

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#16
so proud of you Al, you have done some really amazing stuff and in the digital world i feel you've made quick work of playing "catch-up" with the technology.
 
Al.

Al.

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#17
CHL it’s changed everything for me for the better

Can do much better work now all around.
The “Hand made” crowd will soon he dust in the wind IMO.

Not a cave man anymore
Still really suck at a lot of designs though
 
JMN

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#18
CHL it’s changed everything for me for the better

Can do much better work now all around.
The “Hand made” crowd will soon he dust in the wind IMO.

Not a cave man anymore
Still really suck at a lot of designs though
Well, I might as well not play if *you* are doing much better work and more of it.
 
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