Mike2

Mike2

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I have had 3 VHF mills. I had a very early K4 which was a 3/4 axis andlimited tipping of units and angulated screw channel milling. The first one had many issues with the tool measuring. The factory powder coated the arms which reduced electric conductivity. That is how the signal went to the control board, so it kept making divots in the touch off. My reseller flew in an engineer after the solution from vhf(star washer under touch off to bite thru powder coat )didn't solve the issue. He grounded the A-axis motor with a wire and then the mill ran very well, but I do not believe they tested this well enough as there were many who experienced the same. Now onto the K5 which started acting up this last month after 5 years. I was told I needed to change the end switches, which was a daunting task as these are German mills and they make everything overcomplicated. I ended up not not able to reconnect the Y-axis switch as the accesss to replace the wire was ridiculous. In addition the connectors they use are the ones where u need three hands to complete and there isn't room for one hand.. Mind you the connector for the wire is 2 time the size of a tic tac and the holes you access the release and push in the wire are .5mm and .75mm respectively. The newer ones come with screw down connector as they must have had enough issues with this before? So now i sit and wait as VHF will not drop ship, has to go through reseller? I was told this wasn't meant to be end user maintenance. WTF, ship a 200lb mill to NY from midwest? Then hope after you spend just shy of 500-1000$ that you get it back inside a week. It is all about support and reliability. I will be asking my reseller to mill some cases in house and ship to me for completion, I cannot just run it to the mill store in town, so make sure you have a reliable reseller. When the sh***t hits the fan, hopefully you have a plan as it is to costly to have a back-up 5 axis mill(30K$)

My 2 cents
 
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pierojump

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I would love to but I haven't met anyone who can give me some feedback on it.
Would you happen to know the pricing on it?
Do you have any feedback like quality, mill speed or other their technical support is in North America?
We use 2 M1, one Wet and one Dry. Very good machine with no more maintenance to do. About speed depends the quality that you want to use. We used to use only high quality with 0.3 final bur and it take less then 30min to mill a molar, but time can be reduce a lot if you don't use 0.3 even in high quality or if you go lower. The wet is also good to mill emax block from Ivoclar. About support I could say that is very good and responsive and they never let down us even when some parts need to be replaced. I saw M2 in Italy and still looking a very high end machine.
 
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GHSDL

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I have had 3 VHF mills. I had a very early K4 which was a 3/4 axis andlimited tipping of units and angulated screw channel milling. The first one had many issues with the tool measuring. The factory powder coated the arms which reduced electric conductivity. That is how the signal went to the control board, so it kept making divots in the touch off. My reseller flew in an engineer after the solution from vhf(star washer under touch off to bite thru powder coat )didn't solve the issue. He grounded the A-axis motor with a wire and then the mill ran very well, but I do not believe they tested this well enough as there were many who experienced the same. Now onto the K5 which started acting up this last month after 5 years. I was told I needed to change the end switches, which was a daunting task as these are German mills and they make everything overcomplicated. I ended up not not able to reconnect the Y-axis switch as the accesss to replace the wire was ridiculous. In addition the connectors they use are the ones where u need three hands to complete and there isn't room for one hand.. Mind you the connector for the wire is 2 time the size of a tic tac and the holes you access the release and push in the wire are .5mm and .75mm respectively. The newer ones come with screw down connector as they must have had enough issues with this before? So now i sit and wait as VHF will not drop ship, has to go through reseller? I was told this wasn't meant to be end user maintenance. WTF, ship a 200lb mill to NY from midwest? Then hope after you spend just shy of 500-1000$ that you get it back inside a week. It is all about support and reliability. I will be asking my reseller to mill some cases in house and ship to me for completion, I cannot just run it to the mill store in town, so make sure you have a reliable reseller. When the sh***t hits the fan, hopefully you have a plan as it is to costly to have a back-up 5 axis mill(30K$)

My 2 cents
Thanks for sharing your experience with theVHF mills, much appreciated.
 
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GHSDL

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We use 2 M1, one Wet and one Dry. Very good machine with no more maintenance to do. About speed depends the quality that you want to use. We used to use only high quality with 0.3 final bur and it take less then 30min to mill a molar, but time can be reduce a lot if you don't use 0.3 even in high quality or if you go lower. The wet is also good to mill emax block from Ivoclar. About support I could say that is very good and responsive and they never let down us even when some parts need to be replaced. I saw M2 in Italy and still looking a very high end machine.
Thank you for sharing your insight and experience on the M1.
 
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grantoz

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ghsdl experience with zirkonzahn is pretty normal we have used them now for 16 years its been like that all along
 
Mike2

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Got my K5 up and running again. I had to change out the reference switches and it was difficult but doable. Wish they would have sent a video, so much technology and I can't even get pictures? Anyhow it is running great and hopefully will for another 4700hrs.
 
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hmartek

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I have a Roland 51D it takes 10-18 minuts a unit for molars, 7-14 for smaller units I use sum3d.
Wow...you get that using Sum3d. im using 52dci, premolar takes about 24mins, that is with 2 burs (excluding 0.6mm) and the finishing brush cleaning. Molar it takes about 35mins. Im using Millbox by the way inhouse lab i feel its way to slow for me. I wish i could try this software. We also have Wieland this ones are fast...it takes about 10mins-15mins for a single crown, even just the preparation for a single crown it takes 8secs. Millbox takes forever...slow like a tortoise.
 
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Bryce D

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Wow...you get that using Sum3d. im using 52dci, premolar takes about 24mins, that is with 2 burs (excluding 0.6mm) and the finishing brush cleaning. Molar it takes about 35mins. Im using Millbox by the way inhouse lab i feel its way to slow for me. I wish i could try this software. We also have Wieland this ones are fast...it takes about 10mins-15mins for a single crown, even just the preparation for a single crown it takes 8secs. Millbox takes forever...slow like a tortoise.
That time is using 3 burs I can use 4 and that does more secondary anatomy time does increase .
 
KSA

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I have a Roland 51D it takes 10-18 minuts a unit for molars, 7-14 for smaller units I use sum3d.
Roland take 14min , Vhf takes 8 min. More or less. This is the number 1 issue of roland.
 
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This is a review of ZirkonZahn, and in particular their M1 milling machine. I've been meaning to put this up for a couple years now, because there is literally no consumer information out there on the web and it's impossible for anyone to make an informed decision when considering one of these. We have a prosthodontic office with a lab, and hopefully this helps some people. Before I get into all the cons, I will list some pros. The modeling software, although not intuitive, is excellent. The quality of the ZZ zirconia is excellent. The quality of the milling is excellent...when everything is working. Now onto the cons. First and foremost, you can only mill ZZ zirconia- this alone should be enough of a reason for no one to consider buying one of these. In 2021, paying $400+ for a puck of zirconia is a like a tax on stupidity. The quality of the milling burs is inferior to every other company we've purchased from. The ZZ burs wear out the fastest and will chip your restorations to hell after less than 100 units. Ironically, their burs are also the most expensive. Without getting into a multitude of specifics- I could go on a diatribe on this subject- the mill is abound with technical problems. Some are minor and some are major, but all have been incredibly frustrating. The technical support team are hands down some of the nicest people you will ever have the pleasure of speaking with, and for this I commend them. However, it is often the case that the support, pleasant as they may be, don't know the technical solutions you seek. Suffice it to say that I have written my own trouble shooting manual for my technicians, which is the culmination of more trial and error than anything gleaned from technical support. Ultimately, given the price, I've been beyond disappointed and would never buy another ZZ mill or recommend one. I purchased another VHF mill, which as others have noted, is an excellent machine and completely superior unit.
 
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cadguru11

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We use 2 M1, one Wet and one Dry. Very good machine with no more maintenance to do. About speed depends the quality that you want to use. We used to use only high quality with 0.3 final bur and it take less then 30min to mill a molar, but time can be reduce a lot if you don't use 0.3 even in high quality or if you go lower. The wet is also good to mill emax block from Ivoclar. About support I could say that is very good and responsive and they never let down us even when some parts need to be replaced. I saw M2 in Italy and still looking a very high end machine.
Are you locked into using zz zirconia or titanium?
 
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ProZahnAlex

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if you want a great fast machine id use the zubler xtcera xmill 500 comes with hyperdent and getting amazing results
much faster then any mill ive ever used. every mill job that comes out is perfect never had any down time or issues
 
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hmartek

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Anyone using the Roland 52D? Are you using the post tool brush cleaning? Or you are not using just to cut off like 2mins of time?
 
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AKP

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Anyone using the Roland 52D? Are you using the post tool brush cleaning? Or you are not using just to cut off like 2mins of time?
We have Roland 52Dci. We used tool brush for cleaning but then there was some glitch in the system and that brush was breaking all our crowns. Our support remove that step from our templet. It was doing good job back in a day, but even that supposedly it is fixed, I dont want to take a chance. ;)
 
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AKP

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Wow...you get that using Sum3d. im using 52dci, premolar takes about 24mins, that is with 2 burs (excluding 0.6mm) and the finishing brush cleaning. Molar it takes about 35mins. Im using Millbox by the way inhouse lab i feel its way to slow for me. I wish i could try this software. We also have Wieland this ones are fast...it takes about 10mins-15mins for a single crown, even just the preparation for a single crown it takes 8secs. Millbox takes forever...slow like a tortoise.
Wow that is along time. I have Roland 52Dci and maybe a molar goes for 20 minutes. With that being said, comparing to ther dry mills we have, Roland finishes it is crowns the best. So you get good quality for time. What size of the puck do you use?
 

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