milling help asap

[sidesh0wb0b]

What kind of mill do you have?

Roland 51D with sum3d

 

[A. M.]

Maybe stupid idea... (in my old place we had 50)... the carbide tools were longer...

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Do a coping design on those abutments. Move your margins closer to tissue level. Bond to the abuts and rescan/design. You can shorten your bridges height and create shorter, less parallel intaglios.

that could work, but it would depend on how long the abutments are. bob did mention they were quite long.

 

[A. M.]

But those copings would be the same inside... and if he cannot mill this bridge, he won't be able to mill that either...

 

[user name]

Disagree. Shorten the abuts slightly and increase the taper just a bit.

Find answers, not excuses.

 

[JMN]

But those copings would be the same inside... and if he cannot mill this bridge, he won't be able to mill that either...

He can't mill it because the overall length is too long for his burr shank. Not the case if it is split into two shorter parts.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Disagree. Shorten the abuts slightly and increase the taper just a bit.

Find answers, not excuses.

i mean you aren't wrong here, but shortening the abutments might not be possible. for example this could be an IOS case and the abutments are out of bob's control. only bob would know, but still adjusting the abutment might not be a great idea.

its a solution, but its not a fantastic one. with shorter abutments bob would end up with more zirconia, and thats esthetically not a good thing. you know that better than anyone.

its as good of a solution as saying just let it chip, and add the margin in porcelain. or scalp it in a shorter puck and add the incisal edges in porcelain.

technicaly possible, but not ideal.

 

[rlhhds]

considered that....not the Drs request. he wants the higher strength of the zirc...hence zirc.

Yeah I get that. I have had just a couple cases where I bust my ass to try to do what he wants only to give in to defeat and tell them it is just not possible for whatever reason and end up doing what is actually possible. Good luck to you.

 

[brayks]

doesn't sum3d offer lead/lag options in their 5-axis machining module?
Not sure exactly the "depth of rub", but a slight lead/lag adjustment might do the trick without worrying about collisions.

Not sure how much rub you have, cutting parameters, machining strategy used or amount of margin reinforcement but you might try splitting up the toolpath or reversing it. That is, top down instead of bottom up or top down then bottom up. Be aware this may require modifications to feeds and speeds and/or depth/width of cut.

Your distributor should be able to help get you through this case. Any luck there?

BTW, this is a good example of the differences in software. Some CAM software will automatically tilt and collision check....

 

[KentPWalton]

ok folks, here is a fun challenge....i have a 3unit anterior bridge over very LONG and skinny abutments. i need to mill this out of a very nice, super trans zirconia, and have it in my hands by end of the day monday.

challenge: the size of the bridge requires a 24mm or more thick puck (of the aforementioned super trans zirc). also, maybe its my inept nature, but with the mill and tools i have, each time i mill or calculate the tool strategies, i end up chipping a margin because the shank of the 1mm tool is just ever so slightly bumping the margin or internal sidewall of one of the abutments.

if you think you can make it happen, and have the necessary tools and zirconia, and get let me know ASAP if you feel comfortable giving it a whirl....contact me now. I am out of time on this one and absolutely need to have it happen. super challenging case and patient is running low on tolerating delays (not my fault i swear lol)

pm me or post a reply. i will be watching...and praying hahaha

It seems like you should contact your reseller and let them know what's going on. It appears that a tool isn't modeled correctly in the software around the protection zones. Maybe they can give you a more accurate model of the tool so it won't bump into the Zirconia.

 

[KentPWalton]

here's a couple preview images. the long tip of the margin is the bane of my existence.

The margin extension should be bulked up and finished down by hand to ensure that you get it milled out properly. Also, looks like to me from this angle that the margins are undercut/overextended.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Any update Bob?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Disagree. Shorten the abuts slightly and increase the taper just a bit.

Find answers, not excuses.

trying to avoid shortening the abutments. need as much vertical support as i can get for stability. very compromised case to begin with....i did consider it though, its really just that one extra long spot on the margin thats giving me a headache.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

doesn't sum3d offer lead/lag options in their 5-axis machining module?
Not sure exactly the "depth of rub", but a slight lead/lag adjustment might do the trick without worrying about collisions.

Not sure how much rub you have, cutting parameters, machining strategy used or amount of margin reinforcement but you might try splitting up the toolpath or reversing it. That is, top down instead of bottom up or top down then bottom up. Be aware this may require modifications to feeds and speeds and/or depth/width of cut.

Your distributor should be able to help get you through this case. Any luck there?

BTW, this is a good example of the differences in software. Some CAM software will automatically tilt and collision check....

they probably do, i really like sum3d. spent a few hours tweaking positioning and rerunning the calc in simulations to see if the strategy came out better. i have it where i "think" it may survive....but im not sure. puck should be here today for me to mill 4x before i throw something hahaha!
as far as splitting the toolpaths, now youre getting into an arena where i am not familiar enough to jump in the deep end. i did consider calling CAP....but, and its a big but, the customer service at CAP is nowhere near what it was before uncle hank bought it out. i usually spend 30min-1hr on hold waiting to hear from someone, and then its like talking to a brick half the time. they used to have some really smart ppl doing support, and they may still be there....but i dont get to chat with them often!
if i have trouble with the first mill today i will prob bite the bullet and give them a call, waste my friday on hold and doing support crap....

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

It seems like you should contact your reseller and let them know what's going on. It appears that a tool isn't modeled correctly in the software around the protection zones. Maybe they can give you a more accurate model of the tool so it won't bump into the Zirconia.

yeah, and get the usual.....this is why you should be buying CAP tools at $178 each that last half as long as the TD tools i get for a third of the price each. what the f@ck ever! i burned through $2000+ realizing their tools were absolute TRASH. i wont be switching back.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

The margin extension should be bulked up and finished down by hand to ensure that you get it milled out properly. Also, looks like to me from this angle that the margins are undercut/overextended.

margin thickness is fine. well above the .4mm i usually run (prob .75mm in most areas)
no undercuts inside either. this are milled titanium abutments made parallel to each other for draw.

 

[KentPWalton]

margin thickness is fine. well above the .4mm i usually run (prob .75mm in most areas)
no undercuts inside either. this are milled titanium abutments made parallel to each other for draw.

I'm talking about the margin extension. Bump it out to .2 or .25 and you will see what I'm talking about.

 

[KentPWalton]

yeah, and get the usual.....this is why you should be buying CAP tools at $178 each that last half as long as the TD tools i get for a third of the price each. what the f@ck ever! i burned through $2000+ realizing their tools were absolute TRASH. i wont be switching back.

I'm not talking about their tooling. I'm saying get them on the phone and explain to them what you want. They should be able to help you out.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Yeah, get CAP on the phone...heck, put that $200/month service payment to use. Which I still cringe over, CAP says if you spend over $1200 they will waive the $200 maintenance fee...funny, they charged me again and I spent twice as much that last month with uncle hank. Sad to see such an awesome company go down the drain as fast as they have...to think, it all started when they got rid of their lab sales reps (Kerri was mine). I remember giving Bob some shlt on here, and was told it won't, well chalk one up to me being right again imo.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I'm talking about the margin extension. Bump it out to .2 or .25 and you will see what I'm talking about.

yeah i should have prob done that, youre correct. didnt think of that. will try that before i try milling.