Milling Bur Life

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MichaelB

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Hello everyone, we have 2 VHF mills that work great, but no matter what tools we use we always seem to get around 30 - 35 units before they need to be replaced. Dontknow Is this about the normal average? What does your average milling tool life look like?

Edit: Specifically for Zirconia.
 
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Mike2

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No, what mills, I'm guessing the M200 (3-4axis). I would suspect that your calibration is off or your milling very hard green state Zr. I could on average get 60-80 units on my 2mm tool(roughing tool #6) and more on my 1mm,#2 and my 2mm fine cut,#1, about 200... using Preciso CAM. It is critical that the touchpoint have no visible divots. If you want to speak about it pm me. You will receive plenty of feedback here on this topic, but I only use the tools made by VHF and my tool cost is third cheapest part of makingFCZ crowns. PM if you'd like more info.
 
Sevan P

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You clearly are using cheap tools my friend. I have 3 dry mills wieland mini (vhf k4),the S1 and a vhf k4. Both s1 and k4 are from talladium. I used to run Sierra nano di 2mm and Sierra razor sharp 1mm and a stick big. 6mm tool before I got the wieland. Average 250 on the 2mm nano di and 300 on the razor sharp before either punching the plate on the k5. On the .6m VHF same around 300 units. I don't track by hours I use the tally mark on a excel spread sheet i made.

In the s1 same I run Sierra nano di on both 2mm am 1mm stock vhf .6mm and also added the wieland .3mm for added detail in the fissure. Run diamonds all day long, the most I got and still can go more was 2300 units on the 1mm Sierra but the 2mm seems to cap out around 250 to 350. The .6 and .3 went forever as well.

Now these above was only for at. For wax/pmma I only run Sierra razor sharp and stock .6 vhf. Easy 400 units if I recall correctly I don't use the tally mark system on wax pmma I just cut until I notice a difference in the finish or the sound clearly het s louder. I also have altered the hours in the tool counter to get it set to roughly the unit count by keeping a another tally mark on the amount of times I reset the counter on the hours.

With zr you can clearly hear the b ur getting louder, that is you first sign.

Talladium now has a bur called diamond back around 70.00 and cut good as well easy couple hindered units.

What current tools are you running? I no longer use the 2mm and now run the 2.5mm tool cause i cut using the wieland cam on all 3 of my mills, was running the wieland tools but they suck on the 4axis and had nothing butbissues. Went back to Sierra tools and now all my headaches went away.

But the st you use also has a factor on tools life, the bud strategies and not that aggressive in v6 cam v7 cam now has more strategies and could effect tool life.

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2000markpeters

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My burs run me about $150 (CDN) per tool, average run time 500 units
 
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MichaelB

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You clearly are using cheap tools my friend. I have 3 dry mills wieland mini (vhf k4),the S1 and a vhf k4. Both s1 and k4 are from talladium. I used to run Sierra nano di 2mm and Sierra razor sharp 1mm and a stick big. 6mm tool before I got the wieland. Average 250 on the 2mm nano di and 300 on the razor sharp before either punching the plate on the k5. On the .6m VHF same around 300 units. I don't track by hours I use the tally mark on a excel spread sheet i made.

In the s1 same I run Sierra nano di on both 2mm am 1mm stock vhf .6mm and also added the wieland .3mm for added detail in the fissure. Run diamonds all day long, the most I got and still can go more was 2300 units on the 1mm Sierra but the 2mm seems to cap out around 250 to 350. The .6 and .3 went forever as well.

Now these above was only for at. For wax/pmma I only run Sierra razor sharp and stock .6 vhf. Easy 400 units if I recall correctly I don't use the tally mark system on wax pmma I just cut until I notice a difference in the finish or the sound clearly het s louder. I also have altered the hours in the tool counter to get it set to roughly the unit count by keeping a another tally mark on the amount of times I reset the counter on the hours.

With zr you can clearly hear the b ur getting louder, that is you first sign.

Talladium now has a bur called diamond back around 70.00 and cut good as well easy couple hindered units.

What current tools are you running? I no longer use the 2mm and now run the 2.5mm tool cause i cut using the wieland cam on all 3 of my mills, was running the wieland tools but they suck on the 4axis and had nothing butbissues. Went back to Sierra tools and now all my headaches went away.

But the st you use also has a factor on tools life, the bud strategies and not that aggressive in v6 cam v7 cam now has more strategies and could effect tool life.

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Thank you for the response. This is where it gets more complicated, we have tried just about every brand of milling tool that we can. If we buy the super cheap tools we get around 30 units, if we buy the expensive tools we get 30 -35. We have tried most brands including sierra nano tools. We recently tried talladium's new burs and then it got even stranger. The first set of burs lasted for 67 units, the next set lasted for 60, the next 40, and now even with those we get only around 35 units. Nothing changed on the machines at all during this time, so it is a mystery to me. Any ideas? Hmmmm2
 
Sevan P

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What mills?

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Sevan P

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So both 4 axis? No issues with touch off plates, divets etc? Ezmill from cad blu had nothing but issues but the one from talladium no problems. I hate cad blu with a F'ing passion!

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So both 4 axis? No issues with touch off plates, divets etc? Ezmill from cad blu had nothing but issues but the one from talladium no problems. I hate cad blu with a F'ing passion!

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Both 4 Axis. And no, we have had problems come and go but the tool life has always been the same. Our EZMill is Talladium.
 
eyeloveteeth

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i'm confused they are LITERALLY all the same mills -

@MichaelB - sounds silly, but how clean is the air going into your mill?
 
Sevan P

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When was the last time you blew air on the motherboard to get rid of all the dust and used an electronic cleaner on the motherboard? Also what cam are you using?

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Id like to see your set up. How dry is your air? Id like to see you clean your mill...really clean, load new burs and mill a few units. Then post a pic of the inside of your mill chamber and pull out a 2mm but and post a close up. Theres dry, and then theres dry. With truly dry air, -30 to -40 dew point, the dust will be dry and wont stick to the bur flutes and wont stick in your mill. My bet is your burs and strategy are fine; you just need dryer air so things stay clean. It only take a tiny bit of dust caked on a bur to cause chipping. Dry air is costly to create and maintain.
 
eyeloveteeth

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@user name is on the same page as me. Given how many brands of burs you've used i'd direct all my attention to the table it's sitting on and the air that's being blown in. unless you have a dessicant filter right next to the mill i'm curious what your test of the airline was?
 
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MichaelB

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@user name is on the same page as me. Given how many brands of burs you've used i'd direct all my attention to the table it's sitting on and the air that's being blown in. unless you have a dessicant filter right next to the mill i'm curious what your test of the airline was?

Sorry about the delay in responding. We have a dessicant filter right next to the mills (Within 3-4 ft.) We contacted the air company we have been using and they said that we should be as close as we are able to get to Medical Grade air given what we have. You mentioned the table its sitting on, could that really affect it? How so?
 
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Sorry about the delay in responding. We have a dessicant filter right next to the mills (Within 3-4 ft.) We contacted the air company we have been using and they said that we should be as close as we are able to get to Medical Grade air given what we have. You mentioned the table its sitting on, could that really affect it? How so?
What is the rest of your air supply system? What desiccant set up are you using, and how often do you replace it? Do you have any Zr dust stuck to your burs after milling?
 
eyeloveteeth

eyeloveteeth

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Sorry about the delay in responding. We have a dessicant filter right next to the mills (Within 3-4 ft.) We contacted the air company we have been using and they said that we should be as close as we are able to get to Medical Grade air given what we have. You mentioned the table its sitting on, could that really affect it? How so?

not to say things have to be perfectly level, but if the table rocks or wiggles is bound to have affects on positioning etc etc - it's also a possibility what you perceive as wear is simply just micro-tool chatter from movement.


OR your air supply isn't as clean as you think it is. Check your burs, are they caked in Zr all the time?


could even be a combination of both.


Also, what are you minimum thickness requirements in your designs? (should've asked first i think lol)
 
CoolHandLuke

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Hello everyone, we have 2 VHF mills that work great, but no matter what tools we use we always seem to get around 30 - 35 units before they need to be replaced. Dontknow Is this about the normal average? What does your average milling tool life look like?

Edit: Specifically for Zirconia.
if all your bur brands get similar life, then its how hard you engage your zirconia. what is your chip load, how slow is your spindle, and what feed rate have you given it. these factors affect your tools more than your air quality or coating.

all of the cnc machines on the market if they arent home made will contain customizeable cnc cam software to control feeds, loads, and rates of motion for toolpaths.

my guess is you are roasting tools because you are engaging them by slot milling the entire project.
 
deadhead

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I will agree with most people here. Sounds like you have an air issue. If ZR dust is always on your tools you are getting too much moisture in the air cause your tools shouldnt always have ZR dust caked on them. Also make sure you have proper suction going to the machine to keep everything clean while milling because dust on the puck your milling can cause extra friction and cause machine to get thrown off axis or cause chipping because there is dust that the tool is cutting through along with the unit
 
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