Medit/exocad Pains

[LarryRDC]

<<
Thanks! This is very helpful.
Are you using the t500? Have you found scan times anywhere close to what the marketing says? Even just a single prep in a quad model?>>

Hope it works for ya! Using a Hybrid.... the first gen, basically the same w/ smaller cameras and a little slower. I'm not worried about speed when dealing with a few minutes here or there. I'm a believer in "Good design....takes time.."

 

[2thm8kr]

It seemed like when i tried this as well as the clickable option it changed the screw hole to be "angle corrected" I'll give it another shot. I just feel like nothing is stable, one time this happens another time that happens. Oh well...

What reseller gave you such poor training?

 

[RileyS]

What reseller gave you such poor training?

No comment. I'm appreciative a two guys there. I'm not wanting to burn any bridges. If they screw me over much more I'll share.

 

[Affinity]

Maybe you shoulda got a DOF

 

[RileyS]

Just received a fun little surprise letter in the mail today...
didn't I start a thread called "What other career could a lab tech switch to?" or something like that? I might go look it up again.

 

[user name]

Just received a fun little surprise letter in the mail today...
didn't I start a thread called "What other career could a lab tech switch to?" or something like that? I might go look it up again.

Huh?! Whats going on man?

 

[RileyS]

Huh?! Whats going on man?

Letter is Surprise invoice I wasn't expecting. Apparently it's normal.

 

[esamuelr]

First off, any indents you dont like can be fixed quickly using expert. Switch to expert
Choose edit meshes
Select area where indent is form and delete
Then reselect the area and manually close the holes.
This will give you a smooth closing to your implant base without using scan wax.

As far as changing your design to be lingual and have a matching screw channel to the insertion originally created you need to add more handles.
Hold ctrl and left click on the margin to add as many handles as you like. I prefer 8 well placed handle sets. Then move them to change all the angles and faces of the implants and you will never need to change the insertion direction.
Let me know if you have questions.
Always happy to help.

 

[RileyS]

First off, any indents you dont like can be fixed quickly using expert. Switch to expert
Choose edit meshes
Select area where indent is form and delete
Then reselect the area and manually close the holes.
This will give you a smooth closing to your implant base without using scan wax.

As far as changing your design to be lingual and have a matching screw channel to the insertion originally created you need to add more handles.
Hold ctrl and left click on the margin to add as many handles as you like. I prefer 8 well placed handle sets. Then move them to change all the angles and faces of the implants and you will never need to change the insertion direction.
Let me know if you have questions.
Always happy to help.

Thanks for the input. I'll try it and get back to you.
Thanks for being helpful everyone!

 

[omsk]

Hey Riley, I use a T500 with exocad everyday.

In regards to the advertised speeds, you can get those scanning speeds by changing a few settings.

These settings can only be changed while you are scanning or when you have the window "Scan strategy setting" open.
These options do not appear right when you open collab on the tooth selection screen.

Once you are on the scan strategy setting window, click the lower left "option" button.

You will see this settings. If you want faster scan speeds, select Basic instead of Detail.
The only thing it does is that it takes less scans which speeds everything up. You will get more holes in the scans but most of them will be in non important areas.
I prefer the detail option but you should try and see if it works for you.

 

[Car 54]

If it's set for detail I'd rather give up some speed for the accuracy, even in regard to the opposing. But I know what you're saying, just to see how much
the scan speed would change. That may be how they arrived at their scan speed numbers?

 

[omsk]

Yep totally, they advertise the fastest they are able to scan but they don't mention what settings are needed.

I don't know if they are less accurate with that setting but I would guess it may not make a difference for regular c&b.
You may just end up doing more additional scans in some cases.

 

[2thm8kr]

As far as changing your design to be lingual and have a matching screw channel to the insertion originally created you need to add more handles.
Hold ctrl and left click on the margin to add as many handles as you like. I prefer 8 well placed handle sets. Then move them to change all the angles and faces of the implants and you will never need to change the insertion direction.

I am going to try this, but it seems it is much easier to just change the insertion direction to have the abutment proposal generated closer to the design you want than to add more control points. exocad sets the crown bottom according to the insertion direction whether implant or natural abutment. By not setting the insertion direction to be in parallel to the adjacent teeth you are opening your future crown design up to a lot of proximal interferences.

In the screen shot of post #52 the insertion direction automatically determined by exocad is not even close to what it should be especially on a cement retained implant crown. Maybe I am missing or misunderstanding something here?

 

[RileyS]

Well, fellas and ladies (can't tell who's what here [we'll play it PC and go with people/humans])...well, people/humans, here's my final take on medit/exocad...
most confusing non-linear crap ever! I have had non stop head aches. Things that are just weird. Scans that disappear. Tiny fixes to be made that would mean deleting the whole design? My serious question to you guys that have used both 3 shape and exo, is it really better? Do you really like the 10000000different ways to get to the same result? I now feel like I went from being coddled and babied and getting easy and wonderful results to being dropped on the moon with a paper clip and being told to make it back to earth alone.
Here's my history so you can see where I'm coming from:
Starting in 2007
- MOD 40 from procera designing copings and abutments
-Procera forte -copings, full contour, abutments, bars, surgical guides
-Sirona inlab - copings and crowns
2011-3shape - everything
Still using procera stuff too
2013 - Started my lab with 3shape and jensen preciso
2020 -Medit exocad - barely producing anything

Everything made sense till now. I need to find a whole new foundation of thinking to understand this.

 

[user name]

You need to sit down with someone. Let them watch you do a design. Then you watch and take a few notes while they do a step by step walk through.
I spent years with 3Shape. When my new scanner/ExoCAD showed up, I had 4 hours training, then on my own. I was full speed just about in a couple days. I still discover, and am shown by guys on here, how to do some stuff, but I would NEVER go back.
You never need to loose a design over a fix. It doesnt get deleted unless you choose to make that happen. Thats the whole point...you can do anything.

Say youre done scanning and youre into the job. WAIT!! Dr just called and said it has to fit under a partial. You can scan it in, mesh the scans together and continue with a smile. What if it was an iTero scan, and now you get hit with the partial?! Same thing. You can scan and merge and be on your way. (Thanks @2thm8kr ) If you dont like walking through step by step with Wizard, you can click Expert. Now, put your cursor on a model, or the crown, or the back ground...right click and get a menu of options depending on what you had the cursor on. While in Expert mode. dont forget to click Tools and see what that has to offer. Theres nothing you could want to do that cant be done. You just need someone to show you!

Send that F'n scanner back. Get a Steinbichler and ExoSCAN. (My personal choice. Your stuff is probably just fine)

This is coming from the least tech savy guy on here, guaranteed.

Give me a free 3Shape and 5 years no fees? No thanks. I aint going back.

 

[RileyS]

Today's scan drama. Tech didn't do as I told him when scanning scanbodies (since the medit cant see the contacts of adjacent teeth with scan body in place [but old 3shaped700 always could?]) so there are giant holes in contact areas.I rescan just those models making sure evrything is still good and for some reason the gingiva goes to crap. So rescan gingiva. doesn't work still in exo design. Pt folder of scans shows multiple scans and it takes the one with the least KB size everytime.
second case, my tech didn't scan correctly also so it has missing contacts. I rescan just the part needed. save and run cad, still missing contacts and now ging is a tiny piece like previous case. So I close, I take screen shot of 3d preview for record. I go to rescan. The model scans look perfect but now the scan body is out of place and missing enough data to align. So I rescan just the scan body. I align everything. I take screen shots. save and run cad. Contacts are perfectly closed and usable!!! yay!! but....but.... the gingival is now a little sliver.
I did talk with tech support twice but the real exo/medit guy was flying to a job or something and the guy I had is the CAM guru.
So.....that's weird right? Or are you all having a good chuckle cause I pushed some button that all the rookies push that screws it all up?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

man @RileyS i think you got some botched training. im not using a t500 but im also not having any issues with exocad. nothing ever disappears. i never lose anything ive done. and as its been said a bunch of times here....i think you need expert mode training. my background in scanning/designing is similar to yours, and ive had nearly the complete opposite results since switching from my d700 more than a year ago. and im doing far more implants now too. (generally not many with scanbodies though i will admit). but still the rest of your issues are exocad training issues. not scanner issues.
im in full agreement that you need to send your tech support guys to this thread and or post them outright and get some proper training. i dont use collab so that **** is beyond me too. hence why i havent said much. that and im stupid busy

 

[RileyS]

Sorry guys, but throwing this out in case someone can help tonight.
Everything looked beautiful in scanning but once I opened to start the design process the ging is nothing again. I took a screenshot of each scan, the alignment, and merged. Then the exocad showing where the gingival is a turd. Also has the scan strategy screen shot so you can see how it's set up.




And I tried to scan using exoscan instead of colab2017 but this message pops up


Sorry for being a downer guys.

 

[zero_zero]

First of all you need to get those ppl who sold you the scanner to install you the necessary plug-in to run exoscan. Forget collab, it just makes thing more complicated IMO. I never use it.

With exoscan you are done in 4 steps if you don't scan the gingiva separate, no alignment required.

 

[Leejh]

Sorry guys, but throwing this out in case someone can help tonight.
Everything looked beautiful in scanning but once I opened to start the design process the ging is nothing again. I took a screenshot of each scan, the alignment, and merged. Then the exocad showing where the gingival is a turd. Also has the scan strategy screen shot so you can see how it's set up.

View attachment 34788


And I tried to scan using exoscan instead of colab2017 but this message pops up
View attachment 34789

Sorry for being a downer guys.

It should take only 3 minutes per case to scan. 20 cases per hour. Ask your seller for real training. If you still need help let me know. I can show you