Medit/exocad Pains

apostolis159

apostolis159

Member
Full Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
2
Hey children!
So I've been taught this once or twice and I feel like I'm doing what I was taught but not working.
I designed a 3 unit screw retained bridge. The screw access hole will be right in the contact area of one of the abutment crowns and pontic. So I was told to design it and save the scene of the bridge and jaw. Then start a new case and call all the units anatomic waxups from digital copymilling. So i start designing and import the already designed bridge and get to the point of the design where it adapts to the pre op and the two abutment teeth morph just fine but tthere is no pontic/middle tooth. I have no idea why.
Ergo....I am here to ask my humble superiors for help.

View attachment 38469
Muchas gracias

A bit late to the party here, but whatever. Somebody will find this useful. Hopefully.

There is no reason to do it this way (make it, then save it and import in another project for copy-milling).
Here is what I do when I have a case where the implant is between teeth.
Depending on that version of exocad you have, you may -or may not- have this option available.


If this option is available, set the job normally, and set Cervical adaption to "Preserve tooth library shape" (default is "Pull to margin")
The wizard will make the teeth that are on the implants look like pontics, go through all the steps (place, free-form, shrink, connect),then it will create a virtual waxup of the entire bridge and attach it to the implants. Doesn't matter where the screw channels are.

If you don't have the above option on exocad (which your screenshots lead me to believe),here's how to do it.
Setup the job, nothing special.
Start designing, and on the step where you place the teeth, go on expert mode.
Right click on empty space and select this.


You'll get a prompt, click yes. This should be the result.


Now we are in the same place I described above. Restart the wizard and finish the design (place, free-form, shrink, connect). The wizard will do the rest. You will have the option to free-form the entire thing before the screw channels step.

Here is the finished design from the above pictures. Metal framework in my case, but it's the exact same steps.


Let me know how it goes if you try it.
Cheers :)
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
A bit late to the party here, but whatever. Somebody will find this useful. Hopefully.

There is no reason to do it this way (make it, then save it and import in another project for copy-milling).
Here is what I do when I have a case where the implant is between teeth.
Depending on that version of exocad you have, you may -or may not- have this option available.


If this option is available, set the job normally, and set Cervical adaption to "Preserve tooth library shape" (default is "Pull to margin")
The wizard will make the teeth that are on the implants look like pontics, go through all the steps (place, free-form, shrink, connect),then it will create a virtual waxup of the entire bridge and attach it to the implants. Doesn't matter where the screw channels are.

If you don't have the above option on exocad (which your screenshots lead me to believe),here's how to do it.
Setup the job, nothing special.
Start designing, and on the step where you place the teeth, go on expert mode.
Right click on empty space and select this.


You'll get a prompt, click yes. This should be the result.


Now we are in the same place I described above. Restart the wizard and finish the design (place, free-form, shrink, connect). The wizard will do the rest. You will have the option to free-form the entire thing before the screw channels step.

Here is the finished design from the above pictures. Metal framework in my case, but it's the exact same steps.


Let me know how it goes if you try it.
Cheers :)
Sounds great! I've been able to work through cases lately but I almost feel like I have to relearn it each time and I somehow do it differently each time. This seems super easy! Thanks!
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
Two things

In model creator, I know I saw an option to select that would allow you to design the model as a solid and also produce a separate individual die. But I swear it has dissapeared! Anyone aware of that design option?
Also, can the software not design a solid model of the prep arch and have the margin ditched? Seems like a great idea.
 
J

Josh Claxton

Member
Full Member
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Two things

In model creator, I know I saw an option to select that would allow you to design the model as a solid and also produce a separate individual die. But I swear it has dissapeared! Anyone aware of that design option?
Also, can the software not design a solid model of the prep arch and have the margin ditched? Seems like a great idea.
Heya Riley!

The option for separate die/solid model is "plateless model extra dies" you can also set the ditch width of the dies in the model creation settings page under ditch width
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
Heya Riley!

The option for separate die/solid model is "plateless model extra dies" you can also set the ditch width of the dies in the model creation settings page under ditch width
Ok. Would I select this instead of "Formlabs" since that's my printer?
And I've played with the ditch width but I never seem to get any ditching. I'll try again though.
Thanks as always!
 
J

Josh Claxton

Member
Full Member
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
With the new Exocad version you pick the model plate type in the "model alignment" step, then you can choose the printer settings in the "plateless model design" step. You can also save presets there!

If you're still not getting the option, make sure in the "Toggle Tooth Dies" wizard window that you dont deselect your dies. It's misleading since it calls them detachable, but it really means which teeth will have dies made. Aside from that make sure that your ditching is checked on and you have it set to some number (usually around .2-.3 is good)

g'luck!
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
With the new Exocad version you pick the model plate type in the "model alignment" step, then you can choose the printer settings in the "plateless model design" step. You can also save presets there!

If you're still not getting the option, make sure in the "Toggle Tooth Dies" wizard window that you dont deselect your dies. It's misleading since it calls them detachable, but it really means which teeth will have dies made. Aside from that make sure that your ditching is checked on and you have it set to some number (usually around .2-.3 is good)

g'luck!
It hasn't been working but i think you have pointed out some good stuff to double check. Thanks!
 
TheLabGuy

TheLabGuy

Just a Member
Full Member
Messages
6,223
Reaction score
817
It hasn't been working but i think you have pointed out some good stuff to double check. Thanks!
You still hate Medit/Exocad?...or are you figuring it out?
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
You still hate Medit/Exocad?...or are you figuring it out?
I've learned some of its strengths. Still haven't been able to get my speed as fast as the 3"sheep"
There's still somethings that just seem to bog down speed like crazy! Most of those are the scanner and how it stores files and I think. A few things are just stupid with the Exo design. But I'm very slowly coming around to being numb to it all anyways
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
I've learned some of its strengths. Still haven't been able to get my speed as fast as the 3"sheep"
There's still somethings that just seem to bog down speed like crazy! Most of those are the scanner and how it stores files and I think. A few things are just stupid with the Exo design. But I'm very slowly coming around to being numb to it all anyways
How much have you saved in yearly Update/license fee cost compared to 3Sheep, enough to get the bad taste out of your mouth..... yet ? lol
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
How much have you saved in yearly Update/license fee cost compared to 3Sheep, enough to get the bad taste out of your mouth..... yet ? lol
even steven's. I let them talk me into updating to the new amazing awesome software. maybe i'll say no with this years renewal
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
Here's a pain.
A case has been scanned. It needs to have the bite rescanned. So I hit scan button from Exo DB. It asks if I want to reload the project and I say heck yes i do! Then, sometimes, it brings all the scans and I can go to the individual scan and delete it and rescan and Bob's your uncle. Or, sometimes (like this time),it brings back none of the scans. So I hit the super cool Import Scan icon to load them because efficiency. But here is the pain, the jaw scan that contains the preps....drum roll...is imported but has no preps. Just holes. Just holes?
1623858827864.png
So this is obviously the part where i get that crazy man's eye twitch and imagine myself winning a big lottery and then beating the scanner and my milling machine to death with a sledge hammer.
Anyways, anyone know how to load the jaw with preps in place?
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
I don't know friend, I've been with 3Shape since day one. Someone here probably knows what to do, they usually do, something simple with just a couple of clicks and ticks?
 
J

Josh Claxton

Member
Full Member
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
When you set up the case in the settings of Medit to save dies separately then that's whatcha get! You can turn that off so that they all save together (can make marking margins annoying since the software sees them all as a single piece, or when you're importing the scans you can highlight multiple scans at the same time and import them together ;) Otherwise, save scene file with only the scans showing in Exocad, and export everything you see as an STL instead of as a .dentalcad file

Lots of ways to skin this kitty
 
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
When you set up the case in the settings of Medit to save dies separately then that's whatcha get! You can turn that off so that they all save together (can make marking margins annoying since the software sees them all as a single piece, or when you're importing the scans you can highlight multiple scans at the same time and import them together ;) Otherwise, save scene file with only the scans showing in Exocad, and export everything you see as an STL instead of as a .dentalcad file

Lots of ways to skin this kitty
Since I'm stupid I keep coming back to "We're still just making teeth right? Why so many ways to skin the frigging cat?"

And when are you going to set up a training for me, Josh? Tell me when and where to fly (unless you want to come to Utah [and that's northern Utah, not the nasty SLC area])
 
Last edited:
RileyS

RileyS

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
461
So, next on the Life and Times of Riley: when mirroring a tooth for your crown design, it is occasionally for an implant. Now, sometimes, those implants are placed pretty deep. So what the software does is lollipop the crap out of that crown. Is there a setting that would allow the software to attempt a smooth transition from the "margin" of the copied tooth to the actual abutment margin? or should I just shut up?
mirroring margin adaptation.png
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
Wish I could help and can't wait to hear the solution. Personally I wouldn't use mirroring on this case. One thing I did learn about Exocad libraries, different libraries adapt differently to different size preps. As an example, some libraries adapt better to short preps as compared to taller preps.
Sorry, that's all I got, over my payscale. Dontknow

Edit: scan with and without soft tissue to adapt/contour as usual.
 
Last edited:
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
On all of mine (simpler 1 - 3 unit cases),I take the soft tissue out, to make it easier for the software (3Shape) to find and merge the margin.
Then I smooth/ add to that area from what the emergence looked like. I can always modify it in
the wax up (emax press) or for zirconia contour it in the green state or add a bit of porcelain post sintered if needed.

I sometimes will mill a wax up to confirm what may need to be changed in the CAD design before finalizing,
but most of the time I don't, and can predict it pretty closely having done so many of these over the years.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom