"Lean" production gypsum models

[Denttech]

I know this is probably not the place to place this thread.
But we are all discussing the best way to produce dental prosthetics.
The first step of that process is still gypsum work ( let see what IOS adaptation will do in the future)

In our lab we produce a huge amount of gypsum models per day ( +600 )

I wonder if anybody has a suggestion how to produce them in the most lean way possible to make them ready for scanning and design.

1. sawcut model
Baumann 2000 ?
Optibase Dentana ?
Modeltray ?
...

2. fixed antagonist model
just pour a small amount ?
Press scan putty in the impression?
...

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions

Kind regard

 

[rkm rdt]

First you must establish your Mission Statement

​

 

[CoolHandLuke]

the most lean method is to pour and articulate in WOW or Artimax style articulator, pour single dies for each tooth, don't cut the models. the scanner will stitch the die to the prep model and the aformentioned articulators easily fit inside the d700-900 scanner lineup.

but this basically only eliminates the model cutting stage and is narrow sighted because ceramists usually like to have cut dies; furthermore some scan software might not so easily allow swapping dies and such.

 

[rkm rdt]

models from an ios is the leanest

 

[CoolHandLuke]

no models at all is the leanest.

 

[greener1031]

I know this is probably not the place to place this thread.
But we are all discussing the best way to produce dental prosthetics.
The first step of that process is still gypsum work ( let see what IOS adaptation will do in the future)

In our lab we produce a huge amount of gypsum models per day ( +600 )

I wonder if anybody has a suggestion how to produce them in the most lean way possible to make them ready for scanning and design.

1. sawcut model
Baumann 2000 ?
Optibase Dentana ?
Modeltray ?
...

2. fixed antagonist model
just pour a small amount ?
Press scan putty in the impression?
...

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions

Kind regard

Artimax and scan would be my preference. IOS may provide something in future, but your designs will have to be spot on or a model will still be needed to confirm contacts. just my .02

 

[greener1031]

Artimax and scan would be my preference. IOS may provide something in future, but your designs will have to be spot on or a model will still be needed to confirm contacts. just my .02

one more thing about artimax. base is clear. scan does not pick it up so there is less information to be manipulated during scan. makes it a touch faster.

 

[RileyS]

I used to be pretty lean. Now I've got some flab collecting at the bottom third of stomach. I keep telling myself to start exercising before I look like most of you guys here. But it's hard when you work all day then go home to kids that just want to play all day.
Anyway, how lean do you want be anyways? Cause if your doing 600+ models a day...kiss your exercise time goodbye!

 

[RileyS]

Oh, and I am trying out the individual die pour with no model cutting. Just trying to figure out the easiest and cleanest way to get the ind die poured with the list amount of bulk trimming.
I love the Monotrac system as well.

 

[Gru]

When thinking "lean" always consider the cost of labor for any change. If your ceramists are paid more than the model people, whose time do you want to save? I would guess that saving 20% of a $75 box of die stone will not off set the cost of the ceramist's time fighting with contacts. This is true for any product changes to save a bit.

 

[Jason D]

Of course model free is the leanest/ideal, but working through inconsistencies in technique from one office to another still requires a physical model be fabricated at first, those being printed models usually.
Layered work naturally requires a physical model.
We prefer monotrac, same/similar advantages but we like the results better in terms of cleanup and neatness, as well as the versatility to adapt to other articulators without dramatically altering the model workflow.

 

[user name]

Do everyone a favor and just try to produce the best work your capable of; not the most.

 

[user name]

This might be slightly off topic, but in everyones rush to make 'more', its important to realize that money is a result of our hard work...but it shouldnt be why we work. This video is a bit long, but is worth your time.

 

[Mike2]

Well having gone through lean training, my first question is can you scan and design 600+ units in a day? If so, I will like to come sell in your region. As user name said, do the best not the most. Not for me to judge your business model as I am considering joining the race to the bottom with a value line, one price invoicing etc., volume pricing. I haven't entered it yet so my money is on artimax, buy volume they r <.30$each and have one group pouring the opposings using some slurry, then followed by a cleaner who scrapes excess away, then a pinner and repeat with the die stone. That being said I like the artimax and hate monotrac for production reasons(too much opportunity for error and crap getting under pieces etc. Personally I can do at least ten quads a mix easy, I know when I worked at a large lab in the day we would articulate 50 at a time at the end of the day. Big buckets big spatulas and big mess. I would like to hear your results. In addition if anyone is doing press to metal and can't stand devesting, pm me and for a beer i will design you a solution for devesting 6-8 rings in twenty mins for under 1000$
Good luck to you, you have the first battle beat(getting the work),now put your thinking hat on and get some aspirin. My 2 cents

 

[Affinity]

Using your second pour for your die scan makes no sense to me. Not to mention that most of the material in the sulcus will get torn off with the first pour. The only step you somewhat eliminate is sectioning the dies, which only takes seconds anyways.. Working on only a solid model with no removable dies sucks.. preps break.. Eliminating stone based pinned models saves loads of time.

Honestly I shouldnt even reply to this thread because I see no way of doing accurate work producing over 600 models a day. I would quit the first week of having to QC hundreds of models that 2-5 techs have already had their hands on. Not saying it cant be done, I just cant imagine it.

"if you find yourself cutting corners, go in a circle instead"
Best of luck.

 

[Gru]

Affinity: "Using your second pour for your die scan makes no sense to me. Not to mention that most of the material in the sulcus will get torn off with the first pour. The only step you somewhat eliminate is sectioning the dies, which only takes seconds anyways.. Working on only a solid model with no removable dies sucks.. preps break.. Eliminating stone based pinned models saves loads of time."

Absolutely correct. The working die should always be the first pour unless there's no choice. But the second pour can be a "solid" articulated model and could work if you are willing to deal with the contact difficulties.

"Honestly I shouldnt even reply to this thread because I see no way of doing accurate work producing over 600 models a day. I would quit the first week of having to QC hundreds of models that 2-5 techs have already had their hands on. Not saying it cant be done, I just cant imagine it."

Why does it matter whether it's 6 or 600 models? If the process is tight, the people are good and there are enough of them, then it's simply scale.
Being in a production line setup would make me want to quit too, but each to their own.

 

[RJS8669]

Do you use the G2 die saw? Seems to be a big time saver and can help with folks who experience carpal tunnel syndrome from using handsaws....

 

[Affinity]

Its true it is a matter of scale and procedure, if your procedure is tight, the work should flow perfectly. Im only speaking of experience in other larger or even mid-sized labs that really dont respect the model and are dare I say sloppy.

Im not a model snob, I dont need a beautifully trimmed and polished model to work on as long as its clean and accurate. This is how I keep it lean.. keeping stone to a minimum so that I have to trim nothing, flattening bases on solid models when they are poured, so that Im not having to model trim them to keep them flat as I do contacts. Plasterless articulators are also amazingly fast for me, I dont use them for everything but for certain cases they work great, like nightguards. Slurry water works the way its supposed to, it sets gypsum faster, but I wait over 24hrs generally to start trimming dies until stone is completely dry so I dont need a fast set on my opposings.

Now that everyone is digital they are trying to shortcut one or both of maybe 2 analog steps needed to make a crown anymore. (Model/Glaze) Just because digital is faster doesnt mean the rest of the process should be too. To me having a lean model room means accuracy first.. I think this sets cases up for consistent success. Fat trimmed on the back end.

 

[Jay 1]

I think some are misusing or misunderstanding terminology here:
Lean by definition accelerates production by removing waste and inaccuracy.
Lean is never 'fast' or 'sloppy'
lean is efficient and precise and eliminates mistakes through training, standards and rigorous in-process QC.
Anyone who has truly studied Lean and seen it implemented knows that most labs run at about half efficiency and that is mostly because of inconsistent techniques and standards, NOT because people are going slow to be more precise. In fact just the opposite - lack of standardization in training and expectations creates the problems.
let me give a simple example everyone here has seen:
on a slow day more mistakes are made in the lab than on a busy day. Why? because people are not working at their normal pace and when we 'break stride' we are less consistent.
if this was not true then the work ona slow day would be 'perfect' (subjectively) and done in a very short period of time. However in reality in a non-lean work environment the work takes all day and is lower quality, even if there is only half as many cases to complete.

 

[user name]

Ive heard dumber things, I just cant remember what it was.

Oh yea. Using d.sign porcelain on e.max.