Lab expenses % please help

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MsGabby

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I get paid by the unit for an in house lab owned by the Dentist. He paid for all start up cost, and continues to pay utilities, rent,(he'd pay for anyways) and supplies etc within his office. I get no benefits just a 1099 at the end of the year. I work as needed per volume of work. Regardless to your lab size what is the % of profit after supplies and overhead? Basicly I do PMC to Non precious. Very Simple. What would you think goes into a case per unit with materials? I need to make more money!!! Any info or breakdown from anyone will help muchly!!!!:confused::confused:
 
rkm rdt

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I would want a salary like the rest of his staff.

I worked inhouse and was paid the same as the hygenist....well almost as much but I wasn't as good looking either...
 
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toof makr

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unfortunately...labs only operate on a 10-14% profit margin...we do this because we ain't smart enough 2 do anything else...:violin:

did the working for dr...for a couple of yrs...you ARE staff...i don't care how you want to sugar coat it...

he pd 4 everything...he "should" pay for you as well...now, this will probably mean...you aren't going to get BANK...you should "make less"...than you would @ a "normal lab"...???

wait a min...what did i say :confused:

yah...doesn't "sound right"...but that's usually the way that goes...
AND TRUST ME...just 'cause you "own" the business...doesn't mean..."you get pd"...owner takes ALL the RISKS...and ALL the LOSSES...it SUCKS...!!!

"sometimes"...it is possible...to get hooked up w/ the right dentist...& everything is just peachy...

depending on your location...that should determine the rate @ which you CAN earn...the LMT has a great article on that...about once a year...and the #'s are pretty accurate...
hope this helps...
 
CYNOSURER

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In your situation it really doesn't matter what the overhead is. What you need to figure is how long it takes you to do a crown and if you can produce enough to make what you need. If it doesn't then you need to figure out why. Per unit fee not enough? Not enough units? Too much time wasted chairside doing non-reimbursed custom work? Lab set up inefficiently? Too many interruptions from staff? Doing other non-reimbursed office/operatory/lab work? Would working after hours increase your productivity? Etc. etc.

Your doc may be walking a fine line or he may have crossed over it. I can't tell from your post. But the IRS rules for contract labor are very limited. Many people (mostly labs) are screwing their techs if they don't set it up properly. Of course they are screwing themselves if even one tech complains. One of the biggest labs in Memphis went under when they had to pay their employees back overtime and taxes (everyone there was 'salaried' and paid for 40 hour weeks no matter how many hours they worked). Like KelTik-DraGon said, labs operate on a low profit margin (more like 4 - 8%). Those guys were barely making payroll (cheap prices). The judgement was all it took to close them down. Me, I only make $25 a week...the rest goes to the government, banks, insurance companies, supply houses, UPS, utility companies, employees, and my wife in that order...and some weeks I'm lucky if I get the $25.
 
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MsGabby

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Thanks everyone for your input. Salary is out of the question for some weeks I barely have anything to do and other weeks I have enough. I don't get disturbed at all for anything that would take me away from my work. The most one could get for a salary in these southern states is $20-25 per hour. maybe more if in management. If I calculated a 4 hr crown at $100. then he could pay that almost outside the office without paying for what he is paying for now. Might not be a s good...but.... But getting $75 a crown and no benefits, and paying my own taxes just is not cutting it. Yes I can get my own outside accts, and he would still be entitled to a cut for materials and overhead. I need a REAL job. 9-5. Something I can count on. I tried opening my own lab again and have tried to get new accts. Just not happening. Might be time to move to a better job and economy. That involves moving my life. Not a lab in the area for 50 miles.
 
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Wow. You all make it sound so dismal. Let me throw you a few perspectives. If you owned your own place or leased, bought all new equiptment and supplies, working by yourself you should be able to complete an easy 5 units a day at say $140 each. Not counting the weekends that so many of us work, you would gross $182,000. That would leave you an easy six figure salery. A previous poster said margins around 4-8 %. Somthings wrong there. I bought my building, use the most expensive equiptment and supplies(in most cases),and easily run a 60% plus margin. Another poster said 'we aint smart enough...'. My friends who are doctors make 150-450K. Lawyer friend does 150K plus. My trash collector does six figures. The guy and his son who mow my lawns are doing almost that much. I dont do this because Im dumb or a loser. I love my job. Im good at it, and I make lots of money. As for your materials cost..Np maybe a buck a coping. Porc.-a buck fifty to two. Whats your Doctors charge for a crown? We used to get paid 25% of that. We've obviously as an industry slid back some from there, but 15% would definetly be a worthy and defensible position.
 
Flipperlady

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Thanks everyone for your input. Salary is out of the question for some weeks I barely have anything to do and other weeks I have enough. I don't get disturbed at all for anything that would take me away from my work. The most one could get for a salary in these southern states is $20-25 per hour. maybe more if in management. If I calculated a 4 hr crown at $100. then he could pay that almost outside the office without paying for what he is paying for now. Might not be a s good...but.... But getting $75 a crown and no benefits, and paying my own taxes just is not cutting it. Yes I can get my own outside accts, and he would still be entitled to a cut for materials and overhead. I need a REAL job. 9-5. Something I can count on. I tried opening my own lab again and have tried to get new accts. Just not happening. Might be time to move to a better job and economy. That involves moving my life. Not a lab in the area for 50 miles.

Hi Gabby,

You say there's not another lab for 50 miles? Well that could also be translated to say there's not another lab tech for 50 miles. Please go into your employers office and tell them you need to be placed on a salary. Never mind that there are times you are slow. the employer doesn't want to have to train someone else so he or she can pay you in the down times too. Of course you may have to clean the entire office or sit there with a magazine during those times, but it's pay never the less. If they can't go for that, give your notice and look for another job. My guess and it's just a hunch is that they need you more than you need them and will come up with a solution.
They might try to underpay you at that point, so figure out what you're worth and present that to them (make the number higher so you can bargain :-0

Good luck,
Michelle
 
Al.

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Thanks everyone for your input. Salary is out of the question for some weeks I barely have anything to do and other weeks I have enough. I don't get disturbed at all for anything that would take me away from my work. The most one could get for a salary in these southern states is $20-25 per hour. maybe more if in management. If I calculated a 4 hr crown at $100. then he could pay that almost outside the office without paying for what he is paying for now. Might not be a s good...but.... But getting $75 a crown and no benefits, and paying my own taxes just is not cutting it. Yes I can get my own outside accts, and he would still be entitled to a cut for materials and overhead. I need a REAL job. 9-5. Something I can count on. I tried opening my own lab again and have tried to get new accts. Just not happening. Might be time to move to a better job and economy. That involves moving my life. Not a lab in the area for 50 miles.
I think $75 a crown is very fair esp since its 100% profit or your labor and no overhead or material expenses.

Your problem is lack of work,
No labs within 40 miles is an opportunity because the Drs are mailing out their cases.

You just need to pick up another Dr or two and negotiate the cut.
 
kcdt

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I've been in house, and let me say you're getting screwed.
First off, he owns the supplies (means of production),established the place of employment (rent free),and sets the hours. You are legally an employee and the IRS would bust his balls for this abuse of contract independent labor rules.
Second, if the cheapskate won't pay you a living wage, then get thee to a lab that will.
This guy is over the line in tax evasion and he's taking advantage of you.
Now you know.
P.S. when I worked in house and paid taxes, I paid rent, set my own hours, bought my own supplies, had outside accounts, AND made 6 figures. THAT'S an independent business.
You're just an illegal employee with less than minimum wage, no benefits AND paying your own taxes- this situation is BS and your employer ought to be in jail.
 
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I agree with Al, $75 a crown, no overhead, not to shabby. Like Al said, search out the docs that are mailing out work....... Good chance many doctors in your area are using 2 labs.
Set up a How to take a shade lecture, 3D shade guide, emax, many sales reps will help you, and speak at the lecture ! you pick the topic, and invite many doctors. Set the time around 5:30 to 6 at a restaurant, before doctors go home and turn into couch potatoes. Spend the money to hook a few new accounts.
Another idea, drop off a box of sample cases at prospective new accounts, and leave for several days. Go back to pickup and try to get an appointment to talk with the doc. Must give credit to Al, this was his idea..... great idea....... have several sample boxes and make a few drop offs...... With all the free time, this shouldn't be a problem in the slow times.
Think out-side the box....... lots of work out there, just need to make a connection with new doctors.
Happy hunting

Charles
 
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CYNOSURER

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A previous poster said margins around 4-8 %. Somthings wrong there. I bought my building, use the most expensive equiptment and supplies(in most cases),and easily run a 60% plus margin.

Ah, this all goes back to what profit is. (and I said profit not margins)

If someone else owned your lab and paid you that six figure salary then what would his profit be? Well, his profit would be zero as, right now, everything you keep you're calling profit. Factor out a fair salary for yourself (or what you would have to pay someone(s) to do what you do in the lab now including technical, managerial, and accounting duties) and what you have left is your lab's real profit. If you're making $100,000 now, pay yourself $50,000 a year and your profit went from 60% to 30%. Pay yourself $96,000 and your profit is 4%

If you're like me your profit and loss statement doesn't report net profit it reports net income. My lab is non-profit. I have a four figure income ($25 x 52). My business partner (Mrs. cynosurer) takes the bulk of the net income as compensation for putting up with me. I think she's overpaid...she disagrees.
 
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Check out the laws with an accountant concerning 1099's.....
Who owns the benches and equipment ! Seems like in NC you can't give a 1099 if you own the equipment, I maybe wrong.

Charles
 
TheLabGuy

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Check out the laws with an accountant concerning 1099's.....
Who owns the benches and equipment ! Seems like in NC you can't give a 1099 if you own the equipment, I maybe wrong.

Charles

You can't in Michigan.......great catch Charles.
 
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toof makr

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i thought he was ..."Asleep @ the Wheel"...
should have been up ALL nite...:bebored:


i didn't even catch that...but that's NOT sayin' much...!
 
rkm rdt

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I can't get over the disrespect that your US doctors have for you Dental Technicians. Is it all about cheap prices with them?

Where is the concern for the patient? Don't they want the best for them?
 
rkm rdt

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Ms Gabby,

You said that a management position would pay more.Why not look fo a management job since you already have experience running a lab and working with a**hole dentists.

You could make $1500/week in Canada and our dollar is at par with the US$
 
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Wow thanks for all the input and replies. I tried last year to reopen a lab in my home thinking I had no local competition. As it turns out out of almost 75 Drs I got one case. The one Dr was a nightmare. All the rest said they have been working with the same lab for 15-20 yrs. Some Drs have their own Cerec (sp) machine to make their own crowns. The long distance local labs have pick up and delivery (some cover a 100 mile radius with many drivers) which would be very hard for me to do if they were over 15 miles or so away. I am emax cerified too. I spent a ton of money to set up the lab (had my own lab for 20 yrs in Ma.) and now in serious financial debt. Yes I need to get more work. Believe me I have tried. I did the mailings, show and tell with house calls, guess I need to do it more. The going price for a pmc is $125. Pitiful for I got those prices 25 yrs ago in MA. Any job offer will require moving. The housing market now would kill me with more losses with my home. I am a good technician, good trainer, and would love to learn all the new aspects of the industry. Being a one person lab...there is only so much one can do without getting spread out too thin offering too many types of restorations. I have worked other labs sitting at one bench and it is so much easier to be more productive. I am going to push at my efforts to get more work, and might have to consider a move down the road. I designed and built my dream home here... it will be hard to walk away from it. I am interested in knowing how everyone else's production is. My Dr is not a crown pusher. He also resists new products like pressables. In talking to a few friends their labs are very slow. I took a job last year and moved. The regular employees sabotaged me and I lost my job. Jealousy between employees...I just don't understand. I would welcome the opportunity to work with people who know more than me. I love to learn. New strategic ideas are in the making. Thanks everyone.
 
CYNOSURER

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The regular employees sabotaged me and I lost my job. Jealousy between employees...I just don't understand.

Just guessing, but I suspect a language barrier at play here. Next time try adding extra syllables to your words when you talk.
 
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Just guessing, but I suspect a language barrier at play here. Next time try adding extra syllables to your words when you talk.

I am not sure what is meant or referred to here. I lost that one job because a couple long time employees (Favored by the boss > who is NOT a technician),made me look bad by blaming me for things I was not responsible for.In an effort to help with quality control, which was asked of from everyone when something was spotted.... I was ignored. dies trimmed wrong, Short margins, over extended margins, rocking bridges, just stuff. Some men don't like smarter women is my guess.... I checked my final work on solid models and that was where I would find these problems. Doesn't matter now. It is not an environment I would be happy in.:rolleyes:
 
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The Doctor I work for owns everything. Pays for everything. I sold myself to the Doctors in the area to create a job for myself. If they created the lab...I could make their product for less. It is a business for them. His investment needs to be a business deal. Not any ones fault for the lack of work. My Dr is very passive. He lets the patient decide on the fix for a bad tooth. He saw the need to help someone who needed a job and helped me out. He also likes my work for he has NO adjustments on my crowns or remakes. I just need another Dr for more work. Yes he'll get a cut $$ for using his equipment and supplies. Its not a bad deal.... I just think $50 off each crown that he is saving from using an outside lab is a large discount. The more crowns I do ... the more I pay for rent etc.An outside Drs work would have a larger profit margin for me. It is better than being unemployed.
 
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