Ivoclar S1 or Mihm Vogt HT-S Speed?

[Jaemin Lee]

Hello.

It's been tough days to decide the gears around CAD/CAM nowadays.
But after I've found out this place, now it is more easy to decide things.

I decide to buy DWX-50 for dry milling machine, and now I have to pick zir sintering furnace.
My DT says Ivoclar is very reliable in every aspect, so I prefer to go for Ivoclar Programat S1.
However, I couldn't find any thereads about S1 here.
On the other hand, I could easily find recommendations for Mihm Vogt.

Is there anyone who's experienced both S1 and HT-S Speed?
And Mihm Vogt dealer is keep on saying that the max temerature of S1 is only 1530C and it can be a problem if I want to use the new HT zir materials.
Is it correct?
Because, all the zir materials that I've searched required only 1450C.

I'll be expecting replies from U, thank you.

 

[Sevan P]

The limit on the S1 would be the High temp, not sure what elements they use, the Mihm has the best elements out on the market right now. Also a higher high temp. Yeah most Zr has a 1450, but once you joining the sintering part of CadCam you quickly notice that a higher temp yield better results. It all really depends on what your preferences are on what is good looking. I personally fire my Zr at 1530-1580 My quick fire cycle of 1hr 58min fires at 1480 cause 1530-1580 burned too much of the color out so my A3.5 came out like a A2.5-A3, a lower temp held the color better. But the Mihn would be your better choice.

 

[Jaemin Lee]

The limit on the S1 would be the High temp, not sure what elements they use, the Mihm has the best elements out on the market right now. Also a higher high temp. Yeah most Zr has a 1450, but once you joining the sintering part of CadCam you quickly notice that a higher temp yield better results. It all really depends on what your preferences are on what is good looking. I personally fire my Zr at 1530-1580 My quick fire cycle of 1hr 58min fires at 1480 cause 1530-1580 burned too much of the color out so my A3.5 came out like a A2.5-A3, a lower temp held the color better. But the Mihn would be your better choice.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.
This helps me a lot.

 

[Jaemin Lee]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.
This helps me a lot.

Sevan,
Can I ask you more?

Are you using the HT Speed model, not HT-S Speed?
On the brochure, there are HT-S and HT model.
And HT looks better than HT-S, but the Korean Mihm Vogt dealer only serves HT-S model.
The dealer says , whether it is HT-S or HT it doesn't matter that much.

But I want to hear f from the users, not from the dealers.
They always say their products are the best.

If you can give me some advice, that would be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[grantoz]

listen to your dt he or she has to use this to give the best results to you so dont hold them back by not giving them what they want it will be better for you in the long run.

 

[Jaemin Lee]

listen to your dt he or she has to use this to give the best results to you so dont hold them back by not giving them what they want it will be better for you in the long run.

Yeah, I know what you mean, grantoz, so I've already called the Ivoclar dealer and received a proposal but my DT has never experienced CAD/CAM and monolithic zirconia he only knows ceramic very well.
The reason he recommended S1 is not because he used it or he knew something about it, but he trusts in the brand Ivoclar, that's all.

 

[grantoz]

Im glad you are working with a technician they will repay you 3 fold

 

[Jaemin Lee]

Im glad you are working with a technician they will repay you 3 fold

Yes, he's already repaying his salary with what he's been doing.

 

[Gru]

See this thread for more user opinions.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/zirconia-sintering-furnace.13834/page-2#post-107060

 

[KIM]

The limit on the S1 would be the High temp, not sure what elements they use, the Mihm has the best elements out on the market right now. Also a higher high temp. Yeah most Zr has a 1450, but once you joining the sintering part of CadCam you quickly notice that a higher temp yield better results. It all really depends on what your preferences are on what is good looking. I personally fire my Zr at 1530-1580 My quick fire cycle of 1hr 58min fires at 1480 cause 1530-1580 burned too much of the color out so my A3.5 came out like a A2.5-A3, a lower temp held the color better. But the Mihn would be your better choice.

The reason for the higher than suggested temps really comes down to the accuracy of the furnace internally. Its the same thing with firing ovens too. "Typically" European furnaces tend to be more accurate than other furnaces in general. It's very common to bump up high temps 10-30 Celsius over ZR manufacturer's suggested temps in some furnaces but most all of the new ZR materials are sintering at lower temperatures, not higher compared to traditional ZR's. I would say you are getting a better result going "Higher" because you are actually getting the temperature close to what the manufacturer recommended initially....

 

[Patrick Coon]

Just to throw a wrench in the mix here. ..

You will be seeing a new S1 very soon with a higher (1600C) temperature limit. It works very well (been using the prototype for about 2 months).

Here is a link to the Intructions for Use on the corporate website.

http://www.ivoclarvivadent.us/zoolu-website/media/document/33212/Programat+S1+1600

 

[Jaemin Lee]

Just to throw a wrench in the mix here. ..

You will be seeing a new S1 very soon with a higher (1600C) temperature limit. It works very well (been using the prototype for about 2 months).

Here is a link to the Intructions for Use on the corporate website.

http://www.ivoclarvivadent.us/zoolu-website/media/document/33212/Programat+S1+1600

Thnk you, Patrick, I called my dealer to check about new S1.
This is such a classified information.

 

[Jaemin Lee]

See this thread for more user opinions.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/zirconia-sintering-furnace.13834/page-2#post-107060

Thank you, Gru, this thread helped me a lot.

 

[Andy B]

We have been using the s1 for the last 18months, working like a champ ! we just use the built in programs, and use zenostar and cubex
and have never had any problems.
Highly recommended.