Ivoclar Programmat S1 sintering furnace.

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Marcus Dods

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hello everyone.
new here, but wanted to reach out and ask if anyone has any experience with or knowledge of the Programmat S1 furnace. Looking to sinter Zircad Prime or Armann Girrbach Ziconia, and was wondering what the difference is between the two furnaces...Can the Older programmat S1 do the same job? Or is spending an extra 12,000 worthwhile to get the newer Programmat S1 +1600.
i believe the S1 has a peak temp of 1530, whereas the S1+1600 has a peak temp of 1600. The Zirconia also is to be fired at 1500-1530. any thought or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Secondly, i was wondering if anyone has had or heard of a company called MADE MEDICAL STORE. located in Indonesia. They are selling ivoclar and other dental equipment at a lower cost than locally. they offer the programmat S1 for $3700, and ivoclar is selling the S1+1600 model for $13000 (reg 19000).


Kindest regards
 
Contraluz

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Where are you located? Here in the US, Ivoclar has there year end sale. Check it out.
 
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Marcus Dods

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thanks for the reply. I will check it out. we are in Ontario Canada but might be worth buying in the US.
 
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A. M.

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The AG zirconia's high temp is 1450C...
 
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Marcus Dods

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yes, I believe your correct. The Ivoclar Zircad Prime is 1530 for the rapid 75 min fire. I am trying to decide if I should invest in the newer S1+1600 or settle for the much cheaper S1. to my understanding they are similar with the exception of the peak firing temperature and the heating elements. The sales rep said that the s1+1600 has superior heating elements...but is that worth an extra $10,000????
 
Patrick Coon

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As far as I know, the S1 and S1-1600 use the same heating elements, the real differences are in the software and main circuit board, allowing the S1-1600 to go to the higher 1600C temperature.

With most zirconias only needing to go to the 1530C range, you would likely be fine with the original S1. but if you want to be able to go to higher temperatures with some of the materials on the market (some go to 1550C),then the S1-1600 would be worth it. and the difference in price for your Canadian is likely the exchange rate.
 
Car 54

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Like Contraluz mentioned, the last promotion I saw was for in house financing and the S1 1600 at $9995.00
It would be well worth it to get the 1600 and have it set up to run hotter, i.e. buy more furnace that you think you need at
the time, as you probably won't regret it when you want to try a higher temp zirconia, as Patrick said.
 
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Marcus Dods

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many thanks, your answers are very clear and exactly what I was wondering. thanks Car54 and super thanks Patrick. i did manage to get ahold of the Tech department / sales rep at Ivoclar and was told that the heating element was much better in the 1600.
currently i can get the s1 for $3600 US (4700CAN) versus the S1 1600 for $19000 CANadian...

as I am only working with ceramill and Zircad prime in the lad I can justify the cost difference for the s1 1600, if the need for a higher temp furnace arises, i guess it will always be good to have a backup furnace like the s1.

kind regards
 
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sirmorty

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Where can you get a S1 for $4700…?
 
Car 54

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$3700. maybe used? from Indonesia, mentioned in the 1st post.
 
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2thm8kr

2thm8kr

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Secondly, i was wondering if anyone has had or heard of a company called MADE MEDICAL STORE. located in Indonesia. They are selling ivoclar and other dental equipment at a lower cost than locally. they offer the programmat S1 for $3700, and ivoclar is selling the S1+1600 model for $13000 (reg 19000)
Pretty sure it's a scam company mentioned here a few times with great deals on mills and other equipment. Research that company heavily before parting with your money. Everyone would be buying equipment from them if they delivered the goods at those prices.
 
Car 54

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Good post, 2th, especially the last sentence.
Let alone, what about support from them, I think not.
 
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Marcus Dods

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that was my thoughts as well. one of those Sounds too good to be true.
thanks all for your replies and help with this topic.
 
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Donnie Praditya Sugiarto

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hello everyone.
new here, but wanted to reach out and ask if anyone has any experience with or knowledge of the Programmat S1 furnace. Looking to sinter Zircad Prime or Armann Girrbach Ziconia, and was wondering what the difference is between the two furnaces...Can the Older programmat S1 do the same job? Or is spending an extra 12,000 worthwhile to get the newer Programmat S1 +1600.
i believe the S1 has a peak temp of 1530, whereas the S1+1600 has a peak temp of 1600. The Zirconia also is to be fired at 1500-1530. any thought or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Secondly, i was wondering if anyone has had or heard of a company called MADE MEDICAL STORE. located in Indonesia. They are selling ivoclar and other dental equipment at a lower cost than locally. they offer the programmat S1 for $3700, and ivoclar is selling the S1+1600 model for $13000 (reg 19000).


Kindest regards
I am an Indonesian and I never heard any dental supplier named Made Medical Store. I know all three Ivoclar official Indonesian dealers and that Made Medical Store is definitely not one of them.
It might be a Scam company or maybe he sell used Sintering. It is too cheap for a brand new Ivoclar Sintering.
Anyway, how did you find this Store ? From internet ?
 
Car 54

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Okay Ivoclar, what did you do now? Is it a cheaper material with the pitted surface,
or is it supposed to be more efficient compared to the old version smooth ones?


20210908_085108.jpg
 
Contraluz

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Okay Ivoclar, what did you do now? Is it a cheaper material with the pitted surface,
or is it supposed to be more efficient compared to the old version smooth ones?


View attachment 39285
Don't know about the material, but I had to replace mine, not too long ago, and I felt I was robbed... My new one looks like the old one, though.

Maybe the new material, above, is more resistant? The old ones are very flimsy.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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Don't know about the material, but I had to replace mine, not too long ago, and I felt I was robbed... My new one looks like the old one, though.

Maybe the new material, above, is more resistant? The old ones are very flimsy.

I like your optimism Contra, as now in looking at it, the top is thicker and as a whole, it has a bit more heft to it. When I unpacked it last night I really didn't check it out until you got me thinking about it. Being it's thicker, maybe it has to be more porous to help dissipate the heat better.

Maybe the real problem was that the others were flimsy, and they now have corrected it and come out with
something better :)

The issue I had was the cooling tray isn't really wide enough for the sinter tray and when the lid closed, it caught the edge and chipped it. I now put them on a paver brick to cool. Otherwise, I just leave them in the oven.


20210908_113650.jpg
 
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Patrick Coon

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I like your optimism Contra, as now in looking at it, the top is thicker and as a whole, it has a bit more heft to it. When I unpacked it last night I really didn't check it out until you got me thinking about it. Being it's thicker, maybe it has to be more porous to help dissipate the heat better.

Maybe the real problem was that the others were flimsy, and they now have corrected it and come out with
something better :)

The issue I had was the cooling tray isn't really wide enough for the sinter tray and when the lid closed, it caught the edge and chipped it. I now put them on a paver brick to cool. Otherwise, I just leave them in the oven.


View attachment 39286
Hi all,

Been a while!

I just got the notice about the new material for the tray on Monday. Yes, the reason for the new material is to make the tray a little more robust, so that it will not crack when looked at wrong. 😊 Even though the material is more porous and has a red hue to it, they will work exactly the same during the sintering process.

And like the old tray, it should be run on one of our standard 9hr50min programs before sintering any restorations on it. this just ensures that it does not have any residual contaminates from the manufacturing process.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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Hi all,

Been a while!

I just got the notice about the new material for the tray on Monday. Yes, the reason for the new material is to make the tray a little more robust, so that it will not crack when looked at wrong. 😊 Even though the material is more porous and has a red hue to it, they will work exactly the same during the sintering process.

And like the old tray, it should be run on one of our standard 9hr50min programs before sintering any restorations on it. this just ensures that it does not have any residual contaminates from the manufacturing process.

lol...crack when looked at wrong :)

Thanks for the new tray burn in reminder, I'm running it as we speak.

Good to see you back, again. You've been missed :)
 
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