Ivoclar PrograMill7 PM7 or Roland?

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edohwin

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Hey guys... thinking of getting our first mill.

I was going to dip my toes with a Roland dry mill just for zirconia but I got introduced to the PM7 which can do dry and wet.

So the question is what do you guys think of the Ivoclar PM7?

my main concern is troubleshooting, implementation, tech supports and of course accuracy.

Thanks!
 
R

rookiee

Active Member
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Depends what you gonna do, if you don't mill e.max a lot then go for Roland, it's a mighty workhorse, trust me...And PM7 is like how much expensive? Also PM7 just hits the market so any errors are not out yet...
 
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AnAppleaDay

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The PM7 is a very capable machine.
If I am not mistaken, it is limited to Ivoclar materials, so keep that in mind.

Milling wet and dry on the same mill can be a lot of work since you need to thoroughly clean the unit when changing milling style.

If you do a lot of units, a better option would be to get a capable dry mill for zirconia and a mill for wet. No cleaning in between and you have a backup mill in case anything happens.

I would look at the Roland and the Amann Girrbach Mikro.
 
A

AnAppleaDay

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I don't think that is the case. Maybe Mr. Coon can shed some light on it...

Question: How can I hashtag Pat?
I read somewhere that it was limited to Ivoclar materials, but maybe the source was wrong.
In this instance, I hope I'm wrong because then PM7 seems like a really good offering otherwise.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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Ivoclars support is excellent, IMO. The cam software is very easy to use (Advanced) once it's set up. Click, click, click, fast calculations, and you're there. No sliders, no having to manually mark margins like my friend with his AG mill (which is a great mill in and of itself). I think with Roland, the software is an additional fee, to help entice people with the initial mill price, unless thats changed over the years.

I personally would only go wet or dry, not the back and forth "nightmare" of trying to clean the concrete out of the milling chamber from going from to wet to dry.
 
Contraluz

Contraluz

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Hey guys... thinking of getting our first mill.
I was going to dip my toes with a Roland dry mill just for zirconia but I got introduced to the PM7 which can do dry and wet.
So the question is what do you guys think of the Ivoclar PM7?
Thanks!
If you are not in a rush, and like the PM7, but thinks it may be a bit of an overkill, the PM5 is not far from release (at least that is what they are saying for over a year, now...).
 
Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

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I am pretty sure you can use other products with the PM7. I think the benefits of using ivoclar's materials is that the is a ID reader in the puck changer that doesn't work with other companies pucks. I also think there is a work around for this where you can make your own ID for a puck and the puck changer will be able to read it. Lots of "i thinks" here. Definitely need Patrick Coon's input.

I will echo that you won't find better support out there than from Ivoclar. Also, the PM5 is supposed to be coming out soonish...like this year. It's about 10 grand less than the PM7. PM7 runs around 70k and the PM5 should be around 60K. rough estimates there. ;)
 
Getoothachopper

Getoothachopper

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Ivoclars support is excellent, IMO. The cam software is very easy to use (Advanced) once it's set up. Click, click, click, fast calculations, and you're there. No sliders, no having to manually mark margins like my friend with his AG mill (which is a great mill in and of itself). I think with Roland, the software is an additional fee, to help entice people with the initial mill price, unless thats changed over the years.

I personally would only go wet or dry, not the back and forth "nightmare" of trying to clean the concrete out of the milling chamber from going from to wet to dry.
I agree ,Ivoclars software is my favorite to use........ As long as you move over 'the construction' file as well as the 'cad file' you don't have to mark the margins with the AG software (i do design in Exo though,maybe it's different in 3sheep) . Iv'e been loving the AG Mikro so far. Damn this thing cuts fast !
 
Car 54

Car 54

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I agree ,Ivoclars software is my favorite to use........ As long as you move over 'the construction' file as well as the 'cad file' you don't have to mark the margins with the AG software (i do design in Exo though,maybe it's different in 3sheep) . Iv'e been loving the AG Mikro so far. Damn this thing cuts fast !
Nice tip regarding your work around. I agree, from what I've seen when my buddy mills with his AG mills, fast and quiet.
 
Jason D

Jason D

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If this is my decision there is zero chance I would buy the Ivoclar mill over a Roland.

A Roland is a tried-and-true work horse that performs every day, where as Ivoclars equipment has gotten worse and worse through the years. The previous Ivoclar mill is literally the worst piece of equipment in our building, And when we complain about it they tell us “don’t worry will give you a good trade-in value when the new Mills come out”

Look at it this way: It’s a brand new mill from a company that has a bad track record with Mills, likes to lock users in (rfid tags on eMax blocks are a nightmare that has shut down production in several labs) I found their support support personnel to be condescending and rude to the point where I have asked them to leave the building and I don’t do that very often.

Especially considering this is your first foray into milling… You don’t want to try the new kid on the block that may or may not work, you want the one that works well pretty much every time that lots of people use so there are lots of resources for troubleshooting if you get into trouble.
 
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AnAppleaDay

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I agree ,Ivoclars software is my favorite to use........ As long as you move over 'the construction' file as well as the 'cad file' you don't have to mark the margins with the AG software (i do design in Exo though,maybe it's different in 3sheep) . Iv'e been loving the AG Mikro so far. Damn this thing cuts fast !
AG user here. As long as you have the margin file (*.pts from 3Shape) in the same folder as the STL, you don't have to manually mark margins. If you designed in AG's design software (Exocad-based) you also don't need to manually mark anything. Only when importing standalone STL files you need to mark.
 
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grantoz

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when i looked at the pm7 it was very expensive it is self cleaning though so moving from dry to wet isnt that hard. my m4 Zirkonzahn isnt self cleaning but takes about 5-10 mins to clean not a big deal.
 
R

rookiee

Active Member
Full Member
My Roland is cleaned twice a week, suction and that's it. Two years running, almost 2k hours, once I had to screw the collet (although everyone is sayin you have to do it regular...why if everything works perfectly....) so I couldn't be happier, second one will be Roland again....
 
jeppsta

jeppsta

jeff
Full Member
Correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but you could buy a 52DC and the new 42W and still come in under the PM7 price.
2 reliable work horses with everything covered except metal.
My 50 is also at 2k hours and has been fantastic also. (touch wood);)
My agent told me they were the bane of their existence because they don't breakLaugh
 
harmonylab

harmonylab

Active Member
Full Member
The PM7 is a very capable machine.
If I am not mistaken, it is limited to Ivoclar materials, so keep that in mind.

Milling wet and dry on the same mill can be a lot of work since you need to thoroughly clean the unit when changing milling style.

If you do a lot of units, a better option would be to get a capable dry mill for zirconia and a mill for wet. No cleaning in between and you have a backup mill in case anything happens.

I would look at the Roland and the Amann Girrbach Mikro.
we have a PM7. It's most definitely NOT limited to ivoclar materials only. ivoclar materials come with rfid tags, so they're more convenient to use. there is a reprogrammable rfid tag that can be used for other materials.
Hey guys... thinking of getting our first mill.

I was going to dip my toes with a Roland dry mill just for zirconia but I got introduced to the PM7 which can do dry and wet.

So the question is what do you guys think of the Ivoclar PM7?

my main concern is troubleshooting, implementation, tech supports and of course accuracy.

Thanks!
let me know if you have any specific questions about the PM7.
 
A

AnAppleaDay

Member
Full Member
we have a PM7. It's most definitely NOT limited to ivoclar materials only. ivoclar materials come with rfid tags, so they're more convenient to use. there is a reprogrammable rfid tag that can be used for other materials.


let me know if you have any specific questions about the PM7.
I do have a few questions about the PM7 if you don't mind!

1- How reliable do you find it so far?
2- How do you like the CAM software (ease of use, feature set)?
3- How fast (in minutes) does it mill e.max blue blocks?
4- How are the margins on your milled e.max. Most midrange mills struggle with this.
5- Does the mill have communication built-in to notify you via text or email when it needs user intervention?

Thank you for your answers!
 
harmonylab

harmonylab

Active Member
Full Member
I do have a few questions about the PM7 if you don't mind!

1- How reliable do you find it so far?
2- How do you like the CAM software (ease of use, feature set)?
3- How fast (in minutes) does it mill e.max blue blocks?
4- How are the margins on your milled e.max. Most midrange mills struggle with this.
5- Does the mill have communication built-in to notify you via text or email when it needs user intervention?

Thank you for your answers!
1 - well, ours is new, so not much to say about it there. we're actually on our 3rd machine because the first 2 we got were faulty. this one's working fine so far, aside from a known disc changer bug which occurs rarely. that's apparently been fixed with the latest update, so we'll see.
2 - cam software is quite user friendly, but also quite locked down. you won't be able to edit the cnc file, manually move the axis, or do anything of the sort, though it does appear you can make your own strategies. we have the older cam on select and mini, and those are more intuitive and user friendly than the "updated" version on the pm7.
3 - we don't mill emax. chrome cobalt single unit can be milled in 40 minutes I think
4 - we only press emax
5 - it's not a feature we've thought to use, so not sure, but I don't believe it has it.
 
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