Ivoclar Prime

sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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No problem, friend, as I did know what you were implying, which made sense, so I tried to restrain myself from jumping all over you like a monkey on a cupcake :)
you mean like i did to him, the poor guy, awhile back :D
 
Patrick Coon

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Same with my photo, the 16mm is 1250, the 12mm is 1100 o_O
Thanks for your understanding, Patrick :)

As far as the data changing over time, like with emax in that it is stronger than they thought, compared to maybe being a bit conservative
when it first came out with it's initial mpa numbers?

Exactly. When we first introduced e.maxPress and e.maxCAD both were listed with the minimum standard that the material had to meet to leave the factory, not the actual average values we were getting. Tthis along with different testing methods (to match what new competitors were doing) lead to the changes in reported strength values.

And just because the disk is thicker does not mean the strength values change. Those values are from test pieces that are of all equal in thickness and size as determined by the ISO standard for the material. (I think that was a joke in the comments above, but want to make sure)
 
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Joking?!

Would somebody please drop a puck of 14mm and 18mm and report back ASAP.
 
Car 54

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I think he meant that he understood that it was a joke, that were joking about thickness increasing mpa?
Otherwise, Origin has a 20mm disc that is 1500mpa :)

What is HIP zirconia rated at?
 
JMN

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Pure guesses, no data.

The thicker ones are made on different equipment. The difference in the equipment is what provides the difference in strength at isostatic press + initial sinter.

and/or

They are doing a slightly different blend to get higher strength on thicker pucks as it will have more cantilevered force placed through a 14mm lever end than on a 10mm lever end.
 
kimba

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My biggest problem with ivoclars prime is not the strenght so much as the fact that ivoclar has hidden the lower figures in fine print, indeed it is very hard to see the flexural strenght of the incisal layers in the company literature. I wonder if patrick can enlighten us as to why this is the case.? Another example of dental companies rteating us like fools?? We are trying to make educated desicions when guideing our clients on what restorative materials to use in what situations and all we are told in the hype leading up to Primes release is 1200MPA Layered translucence except when you have no space as the translucent layer is only 650 mpa , so you really gain no advantage in using this material as you have to mill it in the dentin layers for it to be functionally stong so you will loose all the translucent layer ,but dont you worry about that . Trust us just like empress 2
 
Car 54

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By the way, where is the fire starter of this thread? Sure, grantoz, post, run and get us all worked up and apoplectic :)

edit: there you are ;)
 
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You wouldnt want the high trans area of the block for the occlusal of a molar on a bridge or in a thin area would you.you design it thinking 1200mpa it will be fine then you find out oh shoot its 650 in that area.I have remade a few bridges from other labs its cost them their client good for me though, that are using trans Zi with various strengths in the insical area already. its not about the weaker area chipping its about the whole restoration fracturing so comparing the trans area in zi to vmk porcelain is a flawed argument.
 
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did anyone see kimbas fine print i just noticed what he said. thats exactly the point.
 
kimba

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prior to being the piano man , billy was obviuosly once a dental technician
 
Contraluz

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Not if they are using different translucencies.
Thank you for the explanations. I thought this would be the case. However, if memory serves right, the brochure for zircad MT Multi discs explains the difference in strength of the different layers. And, I have to say, my first impression was that the new prime discs are1200mpa, all the way through. But, to be fair, I have not spent too much time to study the 'numbers and fine print', either.
 
Car 54

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So has anyone tried it enough to know if it's a winner or not?

I'm thinking of getting a disc of A2, but was wondering 1st before I buy it.
I really wish they had a 12mm disc for singles, but I suppose the logic is
to give us enough up/down positioning for ging strength and Inc translucency
in a 16 or 20mm disc.

edit: but maybe after re-reading grantoz post# 29, I may pass on it for now.
 
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im using ZZ dispersive 2 its 1100mpa from top to toe no weak spots. i think you can get it in 95 and 98
 
Car 54

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I'm still dipping Beyond Plus, which is also at 1100. I'm just looking for something pre-shaded to
once in awhile give myself a break from hand dipping and coloring.
 
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I'm still dipping Beyond Plus, which is also at 1100. I'm just looking for something pre-shaded to
once in awhile give myself a break from hand dipping and coloring.
Katana my friend.
 
Car 54

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Katana my friend.

Right back at you, friend :)

It makes sense to try that again, as I have about 8-9 discs on the shelf.
I just got so comfortable with the look and strength of Plus, but I
should start using Katana for the more ideal preps, and situations (a non bruxer) where I don't need
the 1100mpa strength of Plus. Is that what your doing, using Plus for bruxer patients and
longer span bridges?
 
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