Ivoclar Ivocap System for PMMA

drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
Me again, the dentist asking all the stupid (?) questions.

I have in front of me the operating instructions for the Ivoclar Ivocap system, and it is to this system alone I will ask questions:

1. Purchasing this system, am I tied to Ivoclar's proprietary acrylics? For example, many here are telling me the best of the PMMAs is Diamond D.

2. Can premixed capsules of other acrylics be adapted to this system? Are the capsule sizes standardized?

3. The instructions say 35 minutes in boiling water for polymerization. Is this for their acrylics only, or for such as Diamond D as well?

4. The instructions say at least 30 minutes in flowing cold water, with pressure injection for the first 20 minutes. MUST we use cold water? That is, can I simply place these into hot water (non-flowing) then leave this overnight to bench-cool?
The reason I prefer the bench cool technique, for materials-engineering when quick-cooled micro-cracks develop, and the slower the cooling the stronger the resultant material, a point I expect most of you already knew, from your castings work.

5. What is the best flask to use in this system? Please state if closed or open, and the make/model of flask. If many different systems work, what is your favorite?

6. With this system, how much finishing is needed, after de-flasking?

I thank you.
 

Attachments

  • SR+Ivocap+Equipment+System.pdf
    666 KB · Views: 22
TomZ

TomZ

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
804
Reaction score
294
You are locked in to using their acrylic and delivery system. I was the beta testing lab and helped develop the Diamond D product, Flexurally and impact wise, nothing is stronger based on blind, independant studies.

Nothing is standardized to Ivoclar, all proprietary. Its about selling consumables Dr.

1.5 hours@165F and .5 boil is standard for most labs using Diamond D. I go 8 @ 165.

You can only use their flasks.

welcome to the Ivoclone Zone
 
drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
Tom,

The same applies to say impression materials. I HATE mixing medium and heavy body PVS or polyether by hand, but I'll be damned if I will be locked into the ESPE Pentamix impression materials for life.

Then I have one most important question for you, and I thank you for the honest answer.

For the Diamond D, which I might add that I am leaning toward for the PMMAs, which curing system do you use? That is, might you tell me exactly, in what order, which machines do you use, what flasks, and at what settings?

And again, I thank you for your time, your knowledge and experience.
 
T

timbangley

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Me again, the dentist asking all the stupid (?) questions.

I have in front of me the operating instructions for the Ivoclar Ivocap system, and it is to this system alone I will ask questions:

1. Purchasing this system, am I tied to Ivoclar's proprietary acrylics? For example, many here are telling me the best of the PMMAs is Diamond D.

2. Can premixed capsules of other acrylics be adapted to this system? Are the capsule sizes standardized?

3. The instructions say 35 minutes in boiling water for polymerization. Is this for their acrylics only, or for such as Diamond D as well?

4. The instructions say at least 30 minutes in flowing cold water, with pressure injection for the first 20 minutes. MUST we use cold water? That is, can I simply place these into hot water (non-flowing) then leave this overnight to bench-cool?
The reason I prefer the bench cool technique, for materials-engineering when quick-cooled micro-cracks develop, and the slower the cooling the stronger the resultant material, a point I expect most of you already knew, from your castings work.

5. What is the best flask to use in this system? Please state if closed or open, and the make/model of flask. If many different systems work, what is your favorite?

6. With this system, how much finishing is needed, after de-flasking?

I thank you.

The biggest pro of the ivocap acrylic is the bond to the teeth. If you get a film on facial of tooth forget about popping it off. Great for doing hybrids and for that I do not mind being stuck to using ivocap.
 
TomZ

TomZ

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
804
Reaction score
294
simple stuff..
The "system" is tried and true but can also produce poor results if its short cutted.

Hanau Flasks, brass, flask compresses, and a pnuematic press.

Invest case in Rapid Flask from Whipmix.

Once set, immerse in boiling water vat for 12-15 minutes, just enough to soften.

Dont allow the wax to get too liquidous as the oils from the wax will permeate the subsurface of stone(not good)

Wash out residual wax with a surfactant wash out cleaner. I use UltraWash because its dental specific and contains no emmoiliants like lanolin which could leave a micro or subsurface layer which could block the isolation property of alginate based separators or block bond of the solvent action of monmer upon denture tooth material..

Coat mold with an alginate based separator when warm enough to hold flask. I have a staging box to keep the molds warm between coats. I usually do 3 coats.

Mix acrylic to manufactures spec...

Tell you what, email me your phone number and I will call you.
 
Last edited:
Flipperlady

Flipperlady

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
194
If money were no object and I were going to process a bunch of implant cases, I'd go with the Ivocap. Still, as I mentioned earlier, if you find a great denture tech you might want to wait and get input from them before you invest.
 
R

rhicks3302

Member
Full Member
Messages
78
Reaction score
7
You are locked in to using their acrylic and delivery system.

Not entirely true. Fricke makes, or did make, a reusable injection tube for the Ivocap system. I have tried other acrylics reusing Ivocap tubes and it worked fine. I did this as an experiment, because Ivocap acrylic shade choices, at the time, were awful. They've gotten better but are still limited. I like their Preference shade and use that 90% of the time.

No need for "short cuts", they're built in.
 
T

TECHARTISAN

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
225
Reaction score
11
You are locked in to using their acrylic and delivery system.

Not entirely true. Fricke makes, or did make, a reusable injection tube for the Ivocap system. I have tried other acrylics reusing Ivocap tubes and it worked fine. I did this as an experiment, because Ivocap acrylic shade choices, at the time, were awful. They've gotten better but are still limited. I like their Preference shade and use that 90% of the time.

No need for "short cuts", they're built in.

are you saying the injectall cartridges fit the Ivocap system?
METAL CARTRIDGE 7766-00 $59.50
DISPOSABLE Cartridge 7771-05 $0.58
 
droberts

droberts

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
828
Reaction score
317
Less dimensional change is the proof of Ivocap. I have used 199 and Diamond D both in the past. Not ever a chance going back to packing!!!
 
N

nevincain

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
You can re-use the tubes with other acryilc. Don't vibrate them, just mix and wait till it is half to 3/4 set and stuff the tube and shoot. Lucitone works fine for sure. This is tested. Follow the Dentsply Success injection curing instructions ignoring the Success specific parts. I like Fricke Hi-Impact as well. You have to muck about with the polymeritzation techniques to do it properly with each acrylic.
 
drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
Flippercentral,

I am NOT going to hire the tech then match the equipment to the tech. What if the tech leaves a few months later? and now I have a bunch of equipment that is worthless? I made that mistake in 1996, and will not do so again.

I will get the best equipment, the very best, in a very high quality work environment. We will offer only the top tier denture quality, at a price mainstream wearers can afford, backed by a valid warranty.
 
drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
To all,

My absolute most important criteria, and the primary reasons for considering the Ivocap system, is dimensional distortion upon polymerization. Acrylic shades are important, impact resistance is very important as is the durability, but how ell the end result FITS is what matters most to me.

I use well fitting stock trays (Pozzi, and considering Candulor Accudent system I) with a modified 2-step system, the degree of shrinkage of the impression material coincides with the degree of expansion of the stone (type III or IV, invested).

I am planning on both flexible (all nylon, I assume) acrylics for partial and complete dentures, monomer free, as well as PMMA.

Per the PMMA I am seeking THE best material that distorts the least. From an engineering background, I know there are variables I can change, variables I insist be present, that will seriously decrease polymerization distortion. For example:
1. Once I begin injecting, it must be continuous through polymerization. The Ivocap system does this.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER SYSTEMS THAT CAN DO THIS? If so and they are not proprietary, I will purchase them. If not, I must use Ivoclar, though I will try to use another acrylic if possible.
I have read, though do not quote me, there are other cartridges that will fit in the Ivoclar system.

2. The more homogenous the material, the less structural issues I will have. Ivocap succeeds in this, though I am told there are others as well.

3. Lengthen the cool-down cycle. Most structural issues are the result of non-homogeneity in material and in temperature (this is solved by Ivoclar continuous injection),and too rapid cool-down.

IS THERE ANOTHER SYSTEM THAT APPLIES CONTINUOUS PRESSURE, AUTOMATIC INJECTION, FROM THE START OF THE PROCESS THROUGH THE CURING CYCLE? If so, and if it allows non-proprietary cartridges, it is the better system.

And I thank you.
 
C

cdtwade

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
352
Reaction score
69
IS THERE ANOTHER SYSTEM THAT APPLIES CONTINUOUS PRESSURE, AUTOMATIC INJECTION, FROM THE START OF THE PROCESS THROUGH THE CURING CYCLE?








NO. It is the ONLY system that the sprue cures LAST, therefore allows continuous feed.
 
Flipperlady

Flipperlady

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
194
Flippercentral,

I am NOT going to hire the tech then match the equipment to the tech. What if the tech leaves a few months later? and now I have a bunch of equipment that is worthless? I made that mistake in 1996, and will not do so again.

I will get the best equipment, the very best, in a very high quality work environment. We will offer only the top tier denture quality, at a price mainstream wearers can afford, backed by a valid warranty.

Well I wish you luck ahead. Dentures can be very profitable.
 
Last edited:
drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
Based upon CDTWade's reply,

Then I am stuck with Ivoclar's system regarding the continuous injection PMMA system, unless one can show cause where press-pack results in better physical properties to the end product.

IF I go with Ivoclar's system, I will ask you, the techs who know these systems, if other cartridges will work with the Ivoclar?

Can acrylics from say Diamond D be put into the Ivocap cartidges?

Simply put, while I believe their equipment is excellent, I do not want to be tied to their acrylic, when I know there are others that are better.
 
araucaria

araucaria

Balanced
Full Member
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
78
Based upon CDTWade's reply,

Then I am stuck with Ivoclar's system regarding the continuous injection PMMA system, unless one can show cause where press-pack results in better physical properties to the end product.

IF I go with Ivoclar's system, I will ask you, the techs who know these systems, if other cartridges will work with the Ivoclar?
would this change a predictable system for unpredictable outcomes?

Can acrylics from say Diamond D be put into the Ivocap cartidges?
Other acrylics would work, but there are simpler injectors out there - eg Success. The Ivocap system uses a small diameter sprue technique and the resin is a totally different viscosity/flowability. Also the Ivocap acrylic is predictably and perfectly mixed every time

Simply put, while I believe their equipment is excellent, I do not want to be tied to their acrylic, when I know there are others that are better.
Better/different - I believe most premium quality acrylics will do a great job, there's many opinions surrounding them all. Remember the dentures are not made to last forever - they'll need continual care and assessment and maybe involve relines/rebasing.

It may be helpful to promote systems as a whole; eg Ivocap, Success, Press, and maybe your own brand too.
Like selling cars. BMW, Ford, RollsRoyce. You don't offer a Ford with BMW tyres, GMC seats, Dodge lights, Honda electrics.......
IMO simple choices can work better and offer consistency. 2c
 
drm313mac

drm313mac

Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
1
Araucaria;

Other acrylics would work, but there are simpler injectors out there - eg Success.
The fault I have with this system is the injection is not continuous, through the curing cycle.
What I most like about it is the closed flask method, therefore the bite will not be changed.

It may be helpful to promote systems as a whole; eg Ivocap, Success, Press, and maybe your own brand too.
I agree. That is why I am seeking the best brands. For the true thermoplastics, the Bredent system I believe I will go with. For the heat-cured all PMMA systems, this I am unsure of. This is why I am still asking all my stupid questions.

Some are still advocating press-pack as the best, whereas most are saying the injection system is best. I do believe the closed flask is the better option, but finding an injection system that works with this, I am searching.

Here is a question then. The advantage of Ivoclar, as I see it, as the acrylic shrinks more acrylic is injected in, as the system is under continuous injection pressure throughout the cycle.
Might a closed flask contain a reservoir, such that as the acrylic polymerizes and shrinks more is automatically pulled in?

Okay, one more question, a possible solution to the dilemma. The other systems inject under pressure, the flask is removed and placed in the boiling water to polymerize --- instead of removing the flask(s) from the injector, place the lower half of the entire injector into the water. Assuming the injector does not electrocute you or the circuit boards are in the upper part, above water, might this work? Essentially this is what Ivoclar did.
 
R

rhicks3302

Member
Full Member
Messages
78
Reaction score
7
The advantage of Ivoclar, as I see it, as the acrylic shrinks more acrylic is injected in, as the system is under continuous injection pressure throughout the cycle.
Might a closed flask contain a reservoir, such that as the acrylic polymerizes and shrinks more is automatically pulled in?

Okay, one more question, a possible solution to the dilemma. The other systems inject under pressure, the flask is removed and placed in the boiling water to polymerize --- instead of removing the flask(s) from the injector, place the lower half of the entire injector into the water. Assuming the injector does not electrocute you or the circuit boards are in the upper part, above water, might this work? Essentially this is what Ivoclar did.[/QUOTE]

Everything you've said here is how Ivocap works, except there are no electronics in the injector. The reservoir is the sprue and acrylic cartridge. This must not cure before the denture cures or there will be porosity as new acrylic would no longer be able to inject into the flask. The curing unit has small plastic balls floating on top to reduce steam and ensure that the reservoir does not cure/harden.

Ivoclar has worked out all the bugs in this system many years ago. The techs that have trouble with this system try and add their own shortcuts.( I know, I was guilty of this 25 years ago). If your technician follows Ivoclar's protocol, you will have consistent success. I agree with araucaria, don't try and reinvent the wheel here. Good luck to you with your project!

Bob Hicks
 
droberts

droberts

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
828
Reaction score
317
The advantage of Ivoclar, as I see it, as the acrylic shrinks more acrylic is injected in, as the system is under continuous injection pressure throughout the cycle.
Might a closed flask contain a reservoir, such that as the acrylic polymerizes and shrinks more is automatically pulled in?

Okay, one more question, a possible solution to the dilemma. The other systems inject under pressure, the flask is removed and placed in the boiling water to polymerize --- instead of removing the flask(s) from the injector, place the lower half of the entire injector into the water. Assuming the injector does not electrocute you or the circuit boards are in the upper part, above water, might this work? Essentially this is what Ivoclar did.

Everything you've said here is how Ivocap works, except there are no electronics in the injector. The reservoir is the sprue and acrylic cartridge. This must not cure before the denture cures or there will be porosity as new acrylic would no longer be able to inject into the flask. The curing unit has small plastic balls floating on top to reduce steam and ensure that the reservoir does not cure/harden.

Ivoclar has worked out all the bugs in this system many years ago. The techs that have trouble with this system try and add their own shortcuts.( I know, I was guilty of this 25 years ago). If your technician follows Ivoclar's protocol, you will have consistent success. I agree with araucaria, don't try and reinvent the wheel here. Good luck to you with your project!

Bob Hicks[/QUOTE]


Ditto
 

Similar threads

L
Replies
1
Views
424
lumieredentalarts
L
Jon the denture dentist
Replies
16
Views
3K
Affinity
Affinity
Top Bottom