Ivoclar emax Press first attempt - Problems

Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
I’m not familiar with jp vest but when I press I do the following.

I never use debubblizer. I find too many issues with it. Lots of orange peel texture after pressing.

After I invest, I wait until the ring is completely dry. I don’t work in a ‘rushed’ environment so I don’t have the need to fast press.
I place the invested ring into a cold furnace and raise temp to 400C, then 25 minute hold. Then raise to final temp, 850C and hold for another 45 minutes. Then place into pressing furnace.

it works great for me. RARELY have mispress issues or cracked rings. YMMV.
Thomas.


thanks for the reply
I Did not use debubblizer for this press, also was not in a hurry environment, it was a test press to see how it works.
But yes the burnout method has to do something with it, i mhave to change it.
 
Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Your pictures are not very clear so I can't give the best advice.
Since your new to pressing emax I would switch over to Ivoclars investment and follow all directions to a T. !!!! Haven't pressed in over 5 years but I definitely think your wax looks to thin at the margins. Feather edge margins must be waxed a little thicker, and sprue length and placement are just as critical !
I bought the ep5000 and never once had to repress any emax crowns in 5 years of pressings. My pressing success didn't come from luck, many others on DLN had the same results. Crack detection did go off 5 or so times in 5 years but my crowns were still ok. Great oven !
I sort of think your burnout technique played a part of your crowns, maybe debubblizer, anyway user error on your part. Short margins most likely comes from thin wax.
Going to assume your hot ring went straight into your ep3000 without delay.
I can't say this strong enough, follow every rule and directions in Ivoclar's emax manual and you will have great success !
fyi. several years later I switched over to Zublers investment, but not because of investment problems.

Edit.. important to calibrate your oven ! like some of my friends, I calibrated every 12 months, or more often depending on how much you press..


thanks for the reply,

The margins might be thin, since i did not make these with wide shoulder prep , just normal.
but if this doesn't come out good then how am I gonna press extra thin no prep veneers?
I did not use any debubblizer.
 
Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
One question for Dosa, did you get this oven new or used? since you mentioned this is your first time pressing
Hoping someone didn’t sell you a dud.

I bought this furnace second hand, I did a calibration with its own ATK2 kit after I bought it, but I never used it for almost 2 years, it was just standing on my desk.
Now I started using it again, but did not do the calibration again because it was not used at all, so what for ?
 
Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Also a minute and a half mixing time is too long. Should be a minute. Mixing speed maters too, Check investment rx, Should be around 320 rpm.

thanks for the reply,
the jpvest instruction says mixing time 2,5 min so I did only 1,5 instead.
the rpm cannot be adjusted on my maschine
 
ps2thtec

ps2thtec

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
620
There has been changes over the years. I do position the objects with the margins pointing outside, for example, which is not shown in any manual, as far as I am aware. I also keep the sprue on the short side.

These pics are from my green eMax manual. See pages 21,27.

19819A16-C741-4B6A-A8AB-1C0414B47DC6.jpeg A6F64214-A754-4CD2-B844-FA5F3F176B80.jpeg
 
millennium

millennium

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
651
Reaction score
78
thanks for the reply,
the jpvest instruction says mixing time 2,5 min so I did only 1,5 instead.
the rpm cannot be adjusted on my maschine
Sorry, I am not using jpvest so disregard what I said about mixing.
When I press very thin veneers I wax a thicker channel through the thin area (like veins in a leaf on a tree) for better delivery and distribution of the emax or any other LD material and then adjust when finishing the veneer.
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
6,409
Reaction score
1,122
thanks for the reply,

The margins might be thin, since i did not make these with wide shoulder prep , just normal.
but if this doesn't come out good then how am I gonna press extra thin no prep veneers?
I did not use any debubblizer.

For myself, my minimum press thickness is 7/10ths, just to make sure it presses. I then would thin it out from there depending on the prep (if prepped) underlying shade color and the opacity of the ingot you use.
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
6,409
Reaction score
1,122
I guess if I would have RTFM, I poste a couple threads earlier, I could have found that myself... :banghead:

I don't think it hurt to post the full manual though, it could come in handy for Dosa.
 
Contraluz

Contraluz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,452
Reaction score
275
I don't think it hurt to post the full manual though, it could come in handy for Dosa.
I agree, that is why I posted it!

I tried to find that particular manual on Ivoclar's Download site, but couldn't find it anymore. But, there is actually a ton of information available:

 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
Ivoclar use to mail out emax manuals free of charge, I'm assuming they still do.
 
ps2thtec

ps2thtec

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
620
I agree, that is why I posted it!

I tried to find that particular manual on Ivoclar's Download site, but couldn't find it anymore. But, there is actually a ton of information available:



Nice find, but nothing beats the real life experience of the staff
here on dln working hard in the trenches everyday! 😅
 
Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Sorry, I am not using jpvest so disregard what I said about mixing.
When I press very thin veneers I wax a thicker channel through the thin area (like veins in a leaf on a tree) for better delivery and distribution of the emax or any other LD material and then adjust when finishing the veneer.

do you have a pic to show how?
 
ps2thtec

ps2thtec

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
620
Sorry, I am not using jpvest so disregard what I said about mixing.
When I press very thin veneers I wax a thicker channel through the thin area (like veins in a leaf on a tree) for better delivery and distribution of the emax or any other LD material and then adjust when finishing the veneer.
do you have a pic to show how?


Had this old article tucked away. May be similar to this technique ?
See fig C&D.
DA6124FA-9BEC-4636-81CA-1D957C9AEBBD.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Dosa Zsolt

Dosa Zsolt

Member
Full Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
This is my 2nd try , here is what I have changed :
- I positioned the edges of the crown outwards and this time pressed only one element, the other sprue is there just because the book said so
- I placed the investment in the bornout furnace at room temp and made the whole burnout much longer hold at 400 C for 20 min and at 850 for more 45 min
- the press program was the same as earlier the own press program for 100g, I had no error this time
- the final result is much better, much smoother surface but the edges are missing again , although this time I made an extra thich edge prepped with a wide shoulder, see the pics.
Is there a calibration program only for press function ? Or that adjust only the heating...?I am really out of clues
 

Attachments

  • 20200611_181855.jpg
    20200611_181855.jpg
    83.8 KB · Views: 31
  • 20200611_181813.jpg
    20200611_181813.jpg
    71.4 KB · Views: 26
  • 20200611_183158.jpg
    20200611_183158.jpg
    93.8 KB · Views: 27
  • 20200611_181931.jpg
    20200611_181931.jpg
    86.6 KB · Views: 30
user name

user name

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,960
Reaction score
1,633
When you add an extra sprue/dummy object, make it just a bit higher than the crown youre pressing.
Youre margins look like some investment break down and unremoved reaction layer.
Always attach sprue to the thickest part of your pattern.
 
user name

user name

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,960
Reaction score
1,633
emax.jpg

The red show too much angle. Press material doesnt like to go around corners and double back.
Black shows better sprue angle.
 

Similar threads

I
Replies
2
Views
554
Scott Holsinger
S
P
Replies
46
Views
9K
Zubler USA
Zubler USA
finnster68
Replies
36
Views
7K
finnster68
finnster68
Top Bottom