investment for emax

Affinity

Affinity

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Haha I knew that would make you cringe!
 
Zubler USA

Zubler USA

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Ultimately you can't by quality or accuracy on fleabay.
 
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Car 54

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Marcusthegladiator CDT

Marcusthegladiator CDT

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A good consistent investment is crucial, We QC ours twice prior to packaging. However reaction layer is controllable. Time & temperature are key...you can use special investments if you can't control your time & temperature well. The decision is yours, however they tend to be expensive and totally unnecessary.

99% time I find that no one realizes how significantly out of calibration their burnout ovens are and how much affect they have on their pressing results. If you would all switch labs for one day and use each others equipment, you would find out how different your results are using identical materials.

It amazes me when I walk into a laboratory that complains of inconsistencies and I measure their burnout ovens, how far off they are. I don't mean 5 or 10 degrees F, I am seeing fluctuations between 50-150F! You have no idea how many times I have seen this. Even laboratories with a calibration protocol have a lack of real understanding the ovens and their effects.

Everyone is looking at the investment or adding something to the investment, or this or that or...the list goes on. The funny thing is... it's as simple as time & temperature. Usually it has to do mostly with your burnout!

1. Burnout temperature (too high - more reaction layer & even surface issues) / (Too Low - mis-presses)
2. Different investments have different thermal masses, one investment will work better for you than another because of the way you are set up. Hot ovens or cold, plunger type used (Alox or disposable),practice consistencies..

Most burnout ovens are cheap, the parts are cheap, but the problems are expensive.

1. Thermocouples in burnout ovens are exposed to a lot of contamination and therefore should be closely monitored.
2. Heating elements in burnout ovens usually gather toward the bottom of the oven or fall over with detached insulation linings, they should be replaced.
3. People overload their ovens often...buy another oven or slow down.
4. Place your rings so that they see the elements on all/both sides of the rings evenly, this will help control overloading and make sure rings are not under heated.
5. Keep them at least 1 inch from the elements and back of the oven and at least 1.5" to 2" from the front of the oven.
6. Make sure your burnout oven is at the FINAL hold temperature for speed cycles before you put a ring in the oven or start the timer for the ring.

All of these points are important, not to say there are not other factors, but I promise you, if you really scrutinize your burnout...you will see a difference quickly.
That's what I try to tell everyone. It doesn't matter what popular investment your buying. Are you using it correctly is the question. I know people that burn out 30 degrees too hot and press 60 degrees to hot. Sounds extreme. It is. But hey, it works for them cause reasons. For me, If I drop 1 or 2 degrees in either the burnout or the press cycle, I will not have a complete press. I'm dialed in right where I should be considering the following... Investment, Time, Oven, and yes even my Geographical Location and changing seasons. Now I don't change a thing between Summer and Winter, but I do notice a difference. And please everyone, cure your rings under pressure. This will decrease the amount of cracked rings you get in the long run. No matter how good you are, sometimes rings fail. But condensing the investment is certainly advantageous long term.
 
sndmn2

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J.P. Vest has had the least reaction layer of the others I have used..fwiw.
 
Zubler USA

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Each investment is different to a certain degree. Many share similar components, thus similar issues. Our instructions specifically say not to use a pressure pot. In every lab that I have tried to solve cracking issues in, never once did I introduce a pressure pot. It was usually mix speed/time and bench set time/procedure. Some times people spruing too close to the wall was a factor, sometimes people putting rings in burnout ovens right next to the heating elements and over filling the burnout oven. There are other factors also, I saw a technician wet model trimming rings right before he put them in a burnout oven. He wondered why the bottom half of the ring cracked during the pressing cycle. I saw some technician running their rings under water right before they put them into the burnout oven, which is ironic, considering the benchset is supposed to be about getting rid of moisture. Debubblizers keep investment from setting up and cause fining, Vaseline keeps investment from setting up and causes exploding rings or cracking. Some people will swear by their debubblizer, others never use it. Vaseline make it easier to remove ring formers, but is often overused and actually ruins ring formers. I have seen others trying to mix too much investment at one time and it would start setting up when they pouring their last ring. But mostly...mixing speed/time and bench set. The faster you mix, the hotter your rings get and more efficient your bench set gets. But some investment materials require a slower mix, thus a longer bench set. I am certain there could be more ways to crack rings I haven't mentioned brought into the discussion, but those are the most common.

Get rid of all your extra accoutrements and follow the instructions.
Process Consistency & Patience my friends...
 
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ztech

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If you have a quality equipment repair shop in your local area, they will have the equipment to calibrate your oven or let you know the offset. Problem is, does it ruin the calibration by transporting it to and from the shop.
 
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Had a trial pack of JP vest a while ago and loved it, very little / no reaction layer....time saver. Didn't buy some straight away for some reason......well we had some of the other stuff left!
Got some in last week and de vested a couple of no prep veneers yesterday that I hadn't been looking forwards to doing. They came out with no reaction layer and fit perfectly on the dies.
The time saving justifies the extra cost.
 
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Radu

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After lots of problems with lots of investment materials, we tried 3 months ago the JP Vest. Damn...it's good!
We use a DEKEMA 654 with a TrixPress system.. and JP was the only material that worked (we didn't try all though) for pressing a PEKTON frame for a bridge in a 380gr ring... No cracks.. .nothing.
On e.max, also great. Almost 0 reaction layer...
 
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juanpajgo

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After lots of problems with lots of investment materials, we tried 3 months ago the JP Vest. Damn...it's good!
We use a DEKEMA 654 with a TrixPress system.. and JP was the only material that worked (we didn't try all though) for pressing a PEKTON frame for a bridge in a 380gr ring... No cracks.. .nothing.
On e.max, also great. Almost 0 reaction layer...

Hello what program did you used to press the pekton pellets ??
i have the dekema press 654 i
or o have to setup the program my self
 

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