Investing without getting bubbles in the occlusion

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I want to try and eliminate all the little bubbles that get trapped in the occlusion of our monolithic posterior e.Max crowns. We sprue up our rings so that the margins of the crown are pointed outward in a 45 degree angle . I still get small bubbles trapped in the anatomy on cases with deep grooves. I use Microstar HS investment with no debubblellizer. I pour slowly until I reach the crown/crowns to minimize the chances of trapping air. Anyone have any tips and tricks to minimize this issue?

 

[Gru]

We use a soft old #4 brush to "paint" the occlusion with investment before pouring the investment. Make sure the brush is thoroughly damp, place bristles in bottom of mixed investment in bowl and twist on bottom to force air out of brush then paint occl. No debubblizer. Eliminates most bubbles for us.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Thanks Gru. That sounds like a good idea to me. I will let you know how it works in a few hours.

 

[charles007]

Brett, I use the HS investment also and use a brush on occlusals and inside of crowns like I've done for years on pfm.. Once my Microstar runs out I'm switching to Zubler,, same ratio, and cheaper.. I just ordered the Zubler 144 liquid for the winter..

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

Charles, let me know how you like the Zubler investment. Can it be used for pfm and fgc cases also?

 

[RileyS]

and what are working times Charles?

 

[charles007]

Already used it, its great,, Suppose to be an improved HS.... Yes, use for anything, pfm. emax, gold like I've always done..
Brett, call Bryan Parker at 770 921 2131.. Bryan use to own Microstar, and now sells Zubler products, and Mihm Vogt sintering ovens like what Jason and I have now..

 

[Gru]

Ditto, Charles. Please do let us know. We also use Microstar HS. 'bout time Zubler becomes a sponsor, eh? So much interest and so many plugs here! Might as well give us an easy contact too!

 

[ps2thtec]

I want to try and eliminate all the little bubbles that get trapped in the occlusion of our monolithic posterior e.Max crowns.

Get some PCI Plus, a press ceramic investment . Almost half the price of your ivo investment. Easy mix, lots working time, pours out thin so you don't get those bubbles . You'll be amazed how good the stuff is you'll have to change your shorts. Look in your Zahn catalog.
Universal investments are only good for convenience, not results.

Why would you not want to use thepressinvestment from the developers
of the LDS technology? Pentron ceramics.

 

[charles007]

and what are working times Charles?

I've found I have slightly more working time than Ivoclar Speed investment.. but aprox the same working time.. Zubler and HS are very runny investments which I prefer....

 

[disturbed]

used microstar HS for years and years.recently switched, brad jones recommended ceri-veti from shofu works MUCH better, cleaner pressings, 1/3 time to devest.

better product for pressings. period.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi Brett, I was getting same thing then I decided to use the bego debubbleiser as the bubbles were driving me mad, I use press vest speed and ivoclar say you should not use debubbleiser. This is pretty much the only deviation that I do from Ivoclar instructions. I spray crowns then dry them with a rolled up piece of loo roll, made into a point can get into all little areas, I soak up any excess debubbleiser and make sure patterns are dry before investing. Found that this resolved the bubble issue for me. I have not had any problems with the pressings etc.

 

[DeVreugd]

Brett,
I use Press Vest Speed & spray with Waxit from DeguDent. Blow on it and invest. I use the plastic tool that comes with the Natural Die Material to fill inside and outside. Here is one from this morning!

 

[GAP]

I want to try and eliminate all the little bubbles that get trapped in the occlusion of our monolithic posterior e.Max crowns.

For Microstar you can use a debubblizer w/ no alcohol added the last time I read through the directions. I do the same thing as Gru, but I use a metal wax dropper tool instead of a brush.

 

[charles007]

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Brett,
I use Press Vest Speed & spray with Waxit from DeguDent. Blow on it and invest. I use the plastic tool that comes with the Natural Die Material to fill inside and outside. Here is one from this morning!

Russ, just found a old- new bottle of Waxit with a 08/2010 date on the bottle, wonder if it will still work ok for investing ?

 

[Toast]

used microstar HS for years and years.recently switched, brad jones recommended ceri-veti from shofu works MUCH better, cleaner pressings, 1/3 time to devest.

better product for pressings. period.

I switched to ceriveti after a Brad Jones course too, it is a great investment but it ain't cheap. I've been trying out Schine Vest for a few weeks and its pretty good and a fraction of the cost.

I take the brush i use to remove the excess yeti die lube from the dies brush all my wax ups with it and I rarely get any bubbles on the occlusal.