I need a New PC for Scanning and Designing 3Shape

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Nixy

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I was thinking of building it myself with AMD components but I've heard rumors of issues with 3shape software. Could anyone that has experience building their own rigs provide me with some light in this matter?

My proposed 3shape AMD build:
 
JMN

JMN

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I was thinking of building it myself with AMD components but I've heard rumors of issues with 3shape software. Could anyone that has experience building their own rigs provide me with some light in this matter?

My proposed 3shape AMD build:
Very short version is 3shape says intel/nvidia works best.

Nvidia is for the reason that the code can be written to run on either/both or can be optimized at a lower-level-less-interpreted-more-accurate-language to run on one card 'family'. They chose Nvidia ostensibly for the programming possibilities.
 
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Nixy

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That being said, can I use new gen chips and gpu's (Intel/Nvidia)? will it have no comparability issues with these new lineups? premanufactured 3shape (e.i. Argen) builds at the moment use 2016 parts and cost a ridiculous amount. I could build 4 mid tear gaming pc's with that.
 
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TanMan

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I was thinking of building it myself with AMD components but I've heard rumors of issues with 3shape software. Could anyone that has experience building their own rigs provide me with some light in this matter?

My proposed 3shape AMD build:
Cool, we're on the same boat right now. I think you should consider some changes to your build to optimize it further... I upgraded the premanufactured builds since they were woefully inadequate, with minimal issues. I'm looking to build one from scratch to see if it's going to be faster.

- Change to Intel CPU, I remember 3shape mentioning it works best with Intel/Nvidia. I got the RTX 2080Ti recently but I'm going to see if its adequate or if I should switch to the Quadro RTX.
- Liquid cooling is nice, but are you looking to overclock or have near 100% runtime? My concern is whether overclocking may result in stability issues
- More memory! This software is a huge memory hog along with windows 10. You may want to do 32 or 64gb. I upped the premanufactured build to 64gb.
- Power supply, I had to build a new computer due to the proprietary components of the Z240 and the power supply was way too weak (400W). It may result in stability issues if the CPU/GPU drain a lot of power
- More SSD storage. I ran into a problem where 250gb SSD was just not enough. Better to start large than have to migrate to a new disk which may or may not have compatibility issues later on (especially on dissimilar hardware). This is going to be my Sunday project to see if I can get it running on a mirrored drive using Macrium and ReDeploy.

I'll let you know once I build and test it. I'm about to upgrade my CERECs too, wish me luck, lol.
 
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JMN

JMN

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Cool, we're on the same boat right now. I think you should consider some changes to your build to optimize it further... I upgraded the premanufactured builds since they were woefully inadequate, with minimal issues. I'm looking to build one from scratch to see if it's going to be faster.

- Change to Intel CPU, I remember 3shape mentioning it works best with Intel/Nvidia. I got the RTX 2080Ti recently but I'm going to see if its adequate or if I should switch to the Quadro RTX.
- Liquid cooling is nice, but are you looking to overclock or have near 100% runtime? My concern is whether overclocking may result in stability issues
- More memory! This software is a huge memory hog along with windows 10. You may want to do 32 or 64gb. I upped the premanufactured build to 64gb.
- Power supply, I had to build a new computer due to the proprietary components of the Z240 and the power supply was way too weak (400W). It may result in stability issues if the CPU/GPU drain a lot of power
- More SSD storage. I ran into a problem where 250gb SSD was just not enough. Better to start large than have to migrate to a new disk which may or may not have compatibility issues later on (especially on dissimilar hardware). This is going to be my Sunday project to see if I can get it running on a mirrored drive using Macrium and ReDeploy.

I'll let you know once I build and test it. I'm about to upgrade my CERECs too, wish me luck, lol.
Let us know how it goes. And pictures! Show the shiny!
 
JMN

JMN

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That being said, can I use new gen chips and gpu's (Intel/Nvidia)? will it have no comparability issues with these new lineups? premanufactured 3shape (e.i. Argen) builds at the moment use 2016 parts and cost a ridiculous amount. I could build 4 mid tear gaming pc's with that.
NO problem using 9 or 10th generation intel i3/5/7/9 and last gen Nvidia. None at all.
 
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Nixy

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Awesome, I'll start putting it together on pcpartpicker. I'll post the link as soon as I have it
 
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Nixy

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Here's what I have
Cool, we're on the same boat right now. I think you should consider some changes to your build to optimize it further... I upgraded the premanufactured builds since they were woefully inadequate, with minimal issues. I'm looking to build one from scratch to see if it's going to be faster.

- Change to Intel CPU, I remember 3shape mentioning it works best with Intel/Nvidia. I got the RTX 2080Ti recently but I'm going to see if its adequate or if I should switch to the Quadro RTX.
- Liquid cooling is nice, but are you looking to overclock or have near 100% runtime? My concern is whether overclocking may result in stability issues
- More memory! This software is a huge memory hog along with windows 10. You may want to do 32 or 64gb. I upped the premanufactured build to 64gb.
- Power supply, I had to build a new computer due to the proprietary components of the Z240 and the power supply was way too weak (400W). It may result in stability issues if the CPU/GPU drain a lot of power
- More SSD storage. I ran into a problem where 250gb SSD was just not enough. Better to start large than have to migrate to a new disk which may or may not have compatibility issues later on (especially on dissimilar hardware). This is going to be my Sunday project to see if I can get it running on a mirrored drive using Macrium and ReDeploy.

I'll let you know once I build and test it. I'm about to upgrade my CERECs too, wish me luck, lol.

I think your build is overkill, I'm looking for something better than what Argen offers without going into excesses.
This is what I got:
 
T

TanMan

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Here's what I have



I think your build is overkill, I'm looking for something better than what Argen offers without going into excesses.
This is what I got:
The only ones I'd probably recommend changing out would be the HD/SSDs. Your choice of motherboard has an M.2/NVMe slot, you should take advantage of that by using an NVMe drive since the one you have there is the SATA SSD. SATA SSDs are vastly inferior and the interface is the bottleneck to taking advantage of the full potential of the SSD (IIRC, I think SATA limits at around 500MB/s, NVMe is 3500MB/s). Second is the storage drive choice; I've had a few WD Blue drives fail after a few years of use, but their performance isn't that great either. If you can swing it, go for WD Gold/Black. I've had one WD Red drive fail so far in my raid array after 5 years, but no gold/black have failed on me yet.

The reason you want to go higher on the OS drive is because if you can process your work on the OS drive, your drive will not be the bottleneck of your system; you can save the files on the Data drive afterwards, when you don't need such high I/O speeds.
 
boboyrobert

boboyrobert

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I just build a design computer for the lab. We went intel i7 and put the RAM way up so I could run multiple inlab and exocad windows at the same time which can be super useful. Inlab takes a lot of ram. Haven't measure exocad. BY FAR the most important component you need is a graphics card ment for design applications and not gaming applications. Gaming video cards work but aren't built to run design software as well. Look at a workstation video card. Radeon? Invidia? Matters with sirona; not with exocad. Also make sure to incorporate ssd for Windows (solid state hard drive) and an HDD for storage. You can get whole terabytes of hard storage for cheap but no one uses it for os installation.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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Second is the storage drive choice; I've had a few WD Blue drives fail after a few years of use, but their performance isn't that great either. If you can swing it, go for WD Gold/Black. I've had one WD Red drive fail so far in my raid array after 5 years, but no gold/black have failed on me yet.
At the time I bought a couple of WD Black for their speed and reliability, from their Enterprise drive web page list.
I have 2 VelociRaptors along with the another Black that are still going strong and it's been about 8+ years for all of them. Granted, their on
personal PCs that have a "normal" amount of use, but I'm still I'm impressed with their longevity.
 
J

JinteraJo

New Member
I was thinking of building it myself with AMD components but I've heard rumors of issues with 3shape software. Could anyone that has experience building their own rigs provide me with some light in this matter?

My proposed 3shape AMD build:
I'm selling a computer.
I think your computer estimate is expensive.
Contact me if you need help.
[email protected]
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

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3shape is still not optimized for new hardware.

This is by design so that they can make partnerships with dell and alienware for marked up shelfware. Shelfware is off the shelf hardware.

Anything more than shelfware of typical dell workstations is overkill and produces no increases in 3shape processing speed.
 
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jeppsta

jeppsta

jeff
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I changed from i7 4790 to a 2700x. I am using a 1660 and upgraded to 32gb of ram.
Bit disappointed that there seems to be no real improvement in 3shape. Mill box feels faster and smoother.
Would i benefit from upgrading to a 3900x/Threadripper?, or is 3shape always more suited to intel?

Thanks
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

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3shape doesnt use more than two cores unleas you force it, in which case it becomes unstable.

If you build a pc, focus on single core speeds.
 
jeppsta

jeppsta

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Thanks CHL.
Considering all the fantastic AMD chips now available, this is a real shame.
Is this the same for all cad software, and just the nature of the beast, or is this just a 3shape thing?
Cheers
 
Last edited:
jeppsta

jeppsta

jeff
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3shape doesnt use more than two cores unleas you force it, in which case it becomes unstable.

If you build a pc, focus on single core speeds.
More unstable!!🤣🤣🤣
Sorry, being a little sarcastic there🙄
 
T

TanMan

Member
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I just build a design computer for the lab. We went intel i7 and put the RAM way up so I could run multiple inlab and exocad windows at the same time which can be super useful. Inlab takes a lot of ram. Haven't measure exocad. BY FAR the most important component you need is a graphics card ment for design applications and not gaming applications. Gaming video cards work but aren't built to run design software as well. Look at a workstation video card. Radeon? Invidia? Matters with sirona; not with exocad. Also make sure to incorporate ssd for Windows (solid state hard drive) and an HDD for storage. You can get whole terabytes of hard storage for cheap but no one uses it for os installation.
I'm implementing exocad with our mill pretty soon and wanted to ask if you think that we should go with a Quadro or Radeon Pro Workstation card? I never like the stock PCs that come with any dental equipment and I tend to want to upgrade

3shape is still not optimized for new hardware.

This is by design so that they can make partnerships with dell and alienware for marked up shelfware. Shelfware is off the shelf hardware.

Anything more than shelfware of typical dell workstations is overkill and produces no increases in 3shape processing speed.
You may be onto something, at least with what I've upgraded and seen so far. When I upgraded the CPU, it didn't provide much perceptable increase in speed, but when I doubled the memory, the software seemed to be able to handle larger/more complex cases more readily. I couldn't upgrade the GPU since the power supply was too weak. These were incremental upgrades, but I'm about to do a full system upgrade hopefully on Monday. Going from an i7-7700k/Quadro M2000 to i9-9900k/RTX2080Ti. This will hopefully shed some light as to whether 3shape software can take advantage of increased clock speed and a newer generation consumer grade card. If it gets worse, I'll probably just use the computer for gaming instead (or use it as the base for an exocad computer) or switch the RTX with a Quadro RTX and see if that gets better or worse results.

I'm pretty excited about Monday, I'm going to switch out the old school drives (IIRC, they are still the old wd caviar blue) of the CEREC with SSDs and up the memory from 16gb to 32gb. I have a spare 1660, so I might drop a 1660 in to replace the old 660Ti in there.

3shape doesnt use more than two cores unleas you force it, in which case it becomes unstable.

If you build a pc, focus on single core speeds.
If 3shape only uses 2 cores at a time, I wonder if you can VM 4 copies of 3shape, assign 2 cores for each copy.
 
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N

Nixy

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3shape is still not optimized for new hardware.

This is by design so that they can make partnerships with dell and alienware for marked up shelfware. Shelfware is off the shelf hardware.

Anything more than shelfware of typical dell workstations is overkill and produces no increases in 3shape processing speed.
I feel like a dog trying to catch his tail!!!!
Ok this is what I got.....


Regarding the Hard Drivers I'm ok with what I have on the build, later in the future, I can easily upgrade them if necessary. What I'm most concerned about are the key components and if they'll perform well and provide a stable architecture for 3Shape.
 
boboyrobert

boboyrobert

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I'm implementing exocad with our mill pretty soon and wanted to ask if you think that we should go with a Quadro or Radeon Pro Workstation card? I never like the stock PCs that come with any dental equipment and I tend to want to upgrade
It matters the series of each. You can get a cheap or expensive radeon and quadro.
 
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