i have a dry milling machine which workks really well

M

mptz

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I was thinking of getting a wet one for emax at the moment I mill wax and press. but the salesman said it was a waste of t of money in the long term because zirconia will improve and you will just be left milling inlays and veneers zirconia. he said he has said a lot of milling machines to dentists who mill out cerasmart or vita enamic. so save your money and stick with the dry. He is a super honest man.
what's others opnion
best karen
 
zero_zero

zero_zero

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We phased out pressables almost entirely...
 
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PRO ARTS DL

PRO ARTS DL

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Lately I've been mentioning Zolid FX ML to the doctors that want e.max crowns. Mention translucency is pretty much the same and it's stronger. They usually go with it unless they really want e.max or it's an inlay/onlay or veneer.

On my side it's cheaper to make the crown out of Zolid FX than milling the e.max block plus it integrates better with the regular zirconia workflow.
 
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Ken Knapp

Ken Knapp

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Lately I've been mentioning Zolid FX ML to the doctors that want e.max crowns. Mention translucency is pretty much the same and it's stronger. They usually go with it unless they really want e.max or it's an inlay/onlay or veneer.

On my side it's cheaper to make the crown out of Zolid FX than milling the e.max block plus it integrates better with the regular zirconia workflow.
I agree.
I do inlay, onlay and veneers in zirconia (anterior material) as well. No problem with cement adhesion when using proper surface preparation with Ivoclean, etc or Ceramir cement. I don't work with emax anymore. Zirconia is so much easier for margin finishing and doesn't chip as easy.
 
Tradewindj

Tradewindj

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I also agree. Even though we still do a ton of press Emax, (wax mill),our Zirconia HT is growing quickly and will continue to grow as materials improve. We have a wet mill but no longer use it because of the cost per unit is much higher. Prep design is crucial with milled Emax and the time savings is minimal.
 
Affinity

Affinity

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zirconia veneers? o_O Id love to see some pics of those. Are they cemented? mechanically bonded:D
 
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ConCAD

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I agree with the above, most of the HT Zirconia is getting good enough for the docs to be satisfied it's stronger and easier to work with.

A side point not mentioned is the wear and tear on the mill. I'm sure some have had no problems with their wet mills but in my experience we had faster/more frequent break downs for longer times with our emax mill. Again just what I saw happen at our lab.

Current lab does high volume work and they just bought two more dry mills. They still just print and press the emax.
 
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sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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zirconia veneers? o_O Id love to see some pics of those. Are they cemented? mechanically bonded:D
actually i milled a zirconia veneer two weeks ago for another lab. came out fine and was uber translucent. A1 shade so nothing fancy about color, i dont even think i took a pic.
 
user name

user name

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actually i milled a zirconia veneer two weeks ago for another lab. came out fine and was uber translucent. A1 shade so nothing fancy about color, i dont even think i took a pic.
What Zr? How did you do connectors?
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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What Zr? How did you do connectors?
Vericore HTX
one large support pin on the facial. i had to call tech support because it kept chipping the axial margins. i hadnt nested it properly (sum3d). once i had that set, it milled just fine
 
cadfan

cadfan

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how do you edge zircon for bigger surface ok can be done with 40 % HF but not the same way as with any other ceramic ???
 
Affinity

Affinity

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I dont doubt that you can mill a zr veneer and even that it would look ok, but how do you bond it?
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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I dont doubt that you can mill a zr veneer and even that it would look ok, but how do you bond it?
its been seated. ive no idea how.
but it can be done and is being done. i think theres a surface primer thats used as an adhesive prior to bonding. or maybe this was the old school of thought. like i said, i dont know how but i do know it is being done cause i did one. it was #8 btw and #9 was a full crown. both have been seated as i asked the other lab. but they too dont know what method was used
 
JMN

JMN

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I dont doubt that you can mill a zr veneer and even that it would look ok, but how do you bond it?
Feel really stupid for needing to ask, but why would it be any different?
 
EJADA

EJADA

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Feel really stupid for needing to ask, but why would it be any different?
At this point of zirconia there isn't a way to etch. Emax etches fantastic. I have heard of different systems that claim to etch zirconia but haven't heard any that really come close to etching emax or feldspathic veneers. It will come in time.
 
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Mark Blyumin

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Only mechenical retention on the ZR side so far. Can not etch it. We will have to see how successful the results are in the future. I would like to see some data. Does anyone have it?


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
JMN

JMN

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At this point of zirconia there isn't a way to etch. Emax etches fantastic. I have heard of different systems that claim to etch zirconia but haven't heard any that really come close to etching emax or feldspathic veneers. It will come in time.
Only mechenical retention on the ZR side so far. Can not etch it. We will have to see how successful the results are in the future. I would like to see some data. Does anyone have it?


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
My confusion stems from people here doing md bridges with it. Interesting.
 
Labwa

Labwa

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Can someone share some photos of these Zr veneers? I'm dubious. But that means nothing. Just am yet to see any look as good as emax aesthetically.
 
Affinity

Affinity

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Who needs evidence based dentistry anyways? Sideshow, arent you ready to rip a dental school dean for teaching saran wrap impression technique, yet you dont know how these veneers are even cemented? Im not judging, I would mill a zirconia crack pipe for these Drs if it pays the bills.. but there are volumes written on adhesive dentistry, and it has come so far, why use something contraindicated? For me, Im not sending out dozens of veneers that have the potential to pop off at any moment, when pressed veneers look better, will never come off even if they crack, are just as strong (IMO no need for more strength than LD),and has fluourescence etc. Veneers are the highest ticket item on my list, Im not really trying to save time or money on them, nor do I think the Drs (or Pts) want that, I think were shooting ourselves repeatedly in the foot with a BB gun here.

Link to the only company trying to sell zirconia bonding material *to my knowledge*, if you scroll to the bottom, notice these words :
"Representative SEM micrograph of debonded zirconia surface (original figure: X2000, bar = 20 µm). A cohesive failure mode was observed with the use of Z-Prime Plus." also "Theoretical demonstration of how the hydrogen (-H) group of phosphate monomer interacts with the Zr-O group of zirconia and forms the phosphate monolayer on the zirconia surface."
Buyer beware.

https://www.dentalaegis.com/special-issues/BISCO/2010/03/bonding-to-zirconia-innovation-in-adhesion
 
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