How many Emax in 100 Gram Ring?

PDC

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I was wondering what the max number of emax crowns in a small ring most of you feel comfortable with. I will usually do 4 lower anteriors or 3 uppers...but would you feel safe doing 2 upper laterals and 2 centrals if it isn't too crowded? Any cracked ring issues?
 
zero_zero

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As many as you can fit, given that there is about a 3mm gap in between them ( 8ga sprue wax thickness )...I've seen more cracked 200g rings than 100g by far...
 
Car 54

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My default number of units is pretty much like your 1st sentence. Whenever I hear the little words of wonder in my mind, of, "should I try this", "just do it" is usually when I start regretting it, i.e. cracks and failures.
If you were using Shofu Ceravety which is denser and can withstand a bit more of what's dished out, then I may consider it. But, I personally would go with a bigger ring, and not have any possible regrets afterwards. Maybe there are those who do it routinely and get by with it (as was just now posted above as I was typing this)? Just my thoughts.

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PDC

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As many as you can fit, given that there is about a 3mm gap in between them ( 8ga sprue wax thickness )...I've seen more cracked 200g rings than 100g by far...

What kind of investment do you use? I kinda agree with Car 54...I got to feel comfortable about this. I'm always trying to be as efficient as possible, but rewaxing a bunch of anteriors is no fun.
 
Car 54

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Good question to ask, as the investment could make a difference too, as far as peace of mind and pushing the envelope.
 
Car 54

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As many as you can fit, given that there is about a 3mm gap in between them ( 8ga sprue wax thickness )...I've seen more cracked 200g rings than 100g by far...

Good tip, zero-zero, of using a piece of 8ga sprue wax to check for the spacing between the units (as per 3mm spacing in the manual). Maybe with that, would then confirm if you could get the 4 units in depending on the spacing and if it is still in the heat zone, or if you'd be going outside of that recommended boundary to gain the proper spacing.
 
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zero_zero

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I like to stay inside the heat zone as much as possible, however having a corner sticking out a mm or two would still work...
 
Car 54

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Agreed. I used to hold my rings with the wax ups against a laminated diagram of the heat zones for the large and small rings, but after awhile I got the idea of where they looked right (or close to where they should be) and now just eyeball it.
 
ps2thtec

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What kind of investment do you use? I kinda agree with Car 54...I got to feel comfortable about this. I'm always trying to be as efficient as possible, but rewaxing a bunch of anteriors is no fun.


If you're trying to be efficient use the Super ring. Been using for a couple years now and never a cracked ring. Maybe the "belt" strengthens the ring some. Your wax ups will be in the correct heat zone.
 
charles hallam cdt

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4 unit in a 100g ring might be pressing it. Ha ha
 
Car 54

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PDC

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If you're trying to be efficient use the Super ring. Been using for a couple years now and never a cracked ring. Maybe the "belt" strengthens the ring some. Your wax ups will be in the correct heat zone.

I've got that, but I don't really use it. I don't like having to work with that split down the side. I haven't had any cracking issues with the 100 gram but wanted to get an idea from other DLNers about their success rate with more than 3 units.
 
Car 54

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I've got that, but I don't really use it. I don't like having to work with that split down the side. I haven't had any cracking issues with the 100 gram but wanted to get an idea from other DLNers about their success rate with more than 3 units.

Split down the side? Do they have to be "locked, latched" together? Couldn't tell what was going on from the link image I posted.
 
PDC

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Split down the side? Do they have to be "locked, latched" together? Couldn't tell what was going on from the link image I posted.

Yeah, there is a split down both sides of the ring that you have to slide together. You have to change your liquid ratio to adjust for the added expansion. Looks like a lot of reaction layer on those too.
 
Car 54

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Thanks, PDC. I think I'll pass on that one for now. I guess it may be a what works for some, may not for others type of thing. So far, what I have working now isn't broken, so why fix it and possibly start a whole new learning curve to deal with.
 
Andrew Priddy

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I like Bego (a little tougher),there tends to be less reaction layer vs. microstar.. microstar is easier to de-vest.. they both have +/-

as for the number of units? fit them in.. 4 posteriors/ 5 anteriors is definitely do-able. if your concerned about the weight, weigh them with the sprues and press at 80-85g. if you are pushing the weight (90-95),drop in an already fired ingot (make sure it fits first) behind the old one.. (just to be sure your new ingot doesn't run dry)
keep a timer on all stages and be religiously consistent (you can't make adjustments if there isn't consistency)
last place I was at, we ran 30 units a day (pressing) and rarely, rarely had a miss press caused by crowding
 
PDC

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I like Bego (a little tougher),there tends to be less reaction layer vs. microstar.. microstar is easier to de-vest.. they both have +/-

as for the number of units? fit them in.. 4 posteriors/ 5 anteriors is definitely do-able. if your concerned about the weight, weigh them with the sprues and press at 80-85g. if you are pushing the weight (90-95),drop in an already fired ingot (make sure it fits first) behind the old one.. (just to be sure your new ingot doesn't run dry)
keep a timer on all stages and be religiously consistent (you can't make adjustments if there isn't consistency)
last place I was at, we ran 30 units a day (pressing) and rarely, rarely had a miss press caused by crowding

Wow! Never heard of dropping a used ingot in behind a new one. I would be afraid of the 2 getting mixed during the melting stage. Have you been doing this on a regular basis without any problems? You are the 3rd person so far in this thread that is putting 4+ units in the small ring using different brands of investment. I think I will try a little experiment with some dummy crowns using my investment (Talladium) and try filling up a small ring. I think you meant .85 grams on your weight?. Ivoclar recommends using 2nd ingot if weight exceeds .75 grams, but hey, I'll give my test ring a shot with a little more.
 
griffmar79

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We use "pushers" too when need a bit more. Never have any issues as long as shades are the same.
 
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