How bad is it to mill Zirconia wet

[sndmn2]

I was looking at the Versamill 5xs in Chi.this weekend milling zirconia wet. Other than letting it dry out are there other drawbacks ? Also what kind of dry times would I be looking at? It just sounds more simple than suction machines,filters. But then I don't so I thought I'd ask.

 

[2000markpeters]

Depending on the miling oil used, you may experience white spots on your crowns where the stain liquid did not penetrate after sintering. Also zirconia sludge is very difficult to clean and messy and can infiltrate parts of your mill where it will be impossible to clean. Stay dry if you can. My 2 cents worth

 

[charles007]

Dry out 15-20 minutes in toaster oven is what I was told by Axsys and by one VersaMill owner.
Unless something has changed, almost every VersaMill owner is wet milling zirconia as of last year
with no problems.
If you remember Glidewell advocated cleaning zirconia dust out of dry milled crowns using ultrasonic cleaner...... Don't know if they still use that technique or not...

 

[CoolHandLuke]

theres no oil involved. the 5x has a container for WATER only. if you arent comfortable doing it wet you can switch it off and do it dry.

 

[brayks]

theres no oil involved. the 5x has a container for WATER only. if you arent comfortable doing it wet you can switch it off and do it dry.

Ben is exactly correct. Also, contrary to a previous post, the zirconia sludge is by far easier to deal with, does not infiltrate infiltrate machine components and is by far less destructive to machine components than abrasive zirconia swarf - at least where the Versamill is concerned anyway.

With the Versamill you can go wet or dry but I can tell you we only have one customer that, due to extreme production requirements, machines dry . All other customers wet mill and would not even consider going back to dry milling.

 

[sonlab]

Isn't wet milling zirconia like milling wet wood? Not as exact in detail?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

the finish on the zirconia units is a HELL of a lot better than ones coming off a roland. its almost glossy immediately post sinter. its just wow.

 

[sonlab]

Maybe its more glossy but is it more accurate?

 

[brayks]

Isn't wet milling zirconia like milling wet wood? Not as exact in detail?

Actually nothing like wet wood as zirconia is not nearly as porous and does not loose its structure like wood. Users not only enjoy longer machine and tool life, less expense in filtration/vac systems and system maintenance, but also highly detailed and as Ben has indicated, lustrous post-sinter units.

 

[brayks]

Maybe its more glossy but is it more accurate?

If you are referring to a Roland, absolutely and with sharp margins without margin relief. Do-overs due to chipped or blown out margins are very rare and if required, usually attributed to worn tooling.

 

[sonlab]

Do a search on DLN this is an old topic

 

[sonlab]

I have been told that you get inconsistent colors from staining if the finish is too shiny- won't penetrate as well as compared if it is dry milled.

 

[brayks]

Interesting. I personally have not seen nor heard if this in our customer base. As I mentioned earlier, with the exception of one, our customers are machining wet and have been for years.

Good thing is you have a choice with the Versamill.

 

[BobCDT]

Why????

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i'm sure you can appreciate the value of a multi-purpose machine bob. you do sell imes don't you?

 

[rkm rdt]

you can't shouldn't wet mill zirconia if you want to speed sinter.

I learned this from Sirona

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you shouldn't speed sinter anyway.

 

[rkm rdt]

you shouldn't speed sinter anyway.

That's the next big thing from cerec. Chairside zirconia.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

why should i care they want to give quick chunks of junk?

 

[BobCDT]

i'm sure you can appreciate the value of a multi-purpose machine bob. you do sell imes don't you?

Love versatility in mills. Both imes and the AG Ceramill Motion 2 are both multi-purpose mills. The AG likely the most versatile in the industry. Both mill zirconia dry. Both mill dry and or wet as needed by the material and or indication. Again, why mill zirconia wet? Generally, wet milling is needed to reduce heat at mill site and or at the tool. This is not a problem when milling zirconia. The M2 for instance mills wax for denture bases wet. The CAM strategy has been setup this way so the mill can rip through the wax very aggressively, reducing the mill time without melting the wax. If it has been established that milling zirconia wet has an advantage to dry milling I'm all ears. If not, I just don't understand why. If milling Zi wet, I wonder how you dry the zirconia before green state coloring. This alone adds to potential unnecessary problems in the lab. A variable I believe to be unnecessary.
By the sounds of it if you want to purchase a Versamill, you have an option to mill dry. That's what i would do if i were an owner.
I could be wrong, I'm all ears and interested in learning everything i can. If you can provide info as to why milling Zi wet is better I would love to hear.
Thanks