Help me understand the Digital implant impressions process!

[drock]

@ CHL. Thanks for responding. If I understand, the 3rd question correctly; if not I stand corrected. The DIM has the analogs already integrated... No? If yes, then you'll be rescanning, And if so, then you can use whatever scanbodies (EOS) extraoral. that will provide the desired workflow and result. No need to use identical IOS scanbodies ad+ this point....No?

@ Affinity and 2th..... I hope youré not refering to me....thanks for the compliment...

Just to clear up the air...pim intended....
I'm sem olde fart..... Stale too! If you dont believe me ....stand close....

Im Just being contra, so to speak. The OP hasn't been back. That's why i responded that way to his post. He sounded ignorant but very demanding..... Anyways our guys stepped in an shared valuable insight..... Now Im milking it fwiw.... Didn't want it to go to waste.

Thanks CHL and Sevan P....!!! Props.

So you have all these companies that make scan bodies IO and desktop. OE companies like Nobel Biocare, Straumann, 3i, M.I.S., Implant Direct, Zimmer Bio Horizon and a few others. 3rd party companies like Tru Abutment, Glidewell, Dess, NT Trading, ELOS etc. Each have their own personal library designed to work with their scan bodies and their scan bodies only. Unless you tweak and crate your own library (hybrid) you must use its dedicated library. Certain companies have IO scan bodes like Nobel (Elos),they have a separate library for IO scan bodies, it is the same as the desktop library but the only thing different is the scan body within the library. You must select the IO library when setting up the trios, itero or any other IO scan order in 3shape.

Not all libraries are able to print implant models. Nobel, Dess, NT Trading, Straumann and soon M.I.S. all have DIM (Digital Implant Model) analog, which is different then the tradition implant replica used for stone casts. But all are ready for custom Ti abutment that have to be sent to the needed milling center to be produced, Nobel library designs go to Nobel, Straumann to Straumann and so on. You can not design on NT trading and have MIS or Implant direct mill it for you.

NOW, the hybrid Zr abutment you simply need to order the right part from the library's mfg, like Argen use the NT Trading library so they sell NT trading Ti bases and DIM analogs and print the implant models as well. MIS sells their own Ti bases and same with Glidewell. You can NOT use Glidewells Ti base on a abutment designed in Implant direct or Straumanns library.

All these companies will make other platforms as well. Nobel has a third party library that uses the same style IO and desktop marks (Elos) as for their platforms and they sell the needed ti bases. Keep in mind not all companies have non engaging ti bases and very few companies allow bars to be made with their libraries. Specially in house milling of Ti abutments just got harder Cause no one can sell you a ti blank to mill unless the lab is now 510K cleared or else the seller gets in trouble now.

I personally have scan markers from the following:
Glidewell
Implant Direct
MIS
Tru Abutment
NT Trading
Nobel Biocare
Straumann
Atlantis
Bio Horizon
3i

My little scan body storage kit.
View attachment 25465

3Shape has introduce a universal marker kit and so far a lot of big names are on board, this would make it so you buy one kit and all the libraries use the same scan bodies but still you send to Nobel or Straumann for manufacturing of the abutments, or in house and use the correct ti bases. But this will most likely be a while till complete and ready to roll out.

PM me and i will give you my cell call and i can explain even in depth how it all works.

Sorry for the longest post ever............................................

So you have all these companies that make scan bodies IO and desktop. OE companies like Nobel Biocare, Straumann, 3i, M.I.S., Implant Direct, Zimmer Bio Horizon and a few others. 3rd party companies like Tru Abutment, Glidewell, Dess, NT Trading, ELOS etc. Each have their own personal library designed to work with their scan bodies and their scan bodies only. Unless you tweak and crate your own library (hybrid) you must use its dedicated library. Certain companies have IO scan bodes like Nobel (Elos),they have a separate library for IO scan bodies, it is the same as the desktop library but the only thing different is the scan body within the library. You must select the IO library when setting up the trios, itero or any other IO scan order in 3shape.

Not all libraries are able to print implant models. Nobel, Dess, NT Trading, Straumann and soon M.I.S. all have DIM (Digital Implant Model) analog, which is different then the tradition implant replica used for stone casts. But all are ready for custom Ti abutment that have to be sent to the needed milling center to be produced, Nobel library designs go to Nobel, Straumann to Straumann and so on. You can not design on NT trading and have MIS or Implant direct mill it for you.

NOW, the hybrid Zr abutment you simply need to order the right part from the library's mfg, like Argen use the NT Trading library so they sell NT trading Ti bases and DIM analogs and print the implant models as well. MIS sells their own Ti bases and same with Glidewell. You can NOT use Glidewells Ti base on a abutment designed in Implant direct or Straumanns library.

All these companies will make other platforms as well. Nobel has a third party library that uses the same style IO and desktop marks (Elos) as for their platforms and they sell the needed ti bases. Keep in mind not all companies have non engaging ti bases and very few companies allow bars to be made with their libraries. Specially in house milling of Ti abutments just got harder Cause no one can sell you a ti blank to mill unless the lab is now 510K cleared or else the seller gets in trouble now.

I personally have scan markers from the following:
Glidewell
Implant Direct
MIS
Tru Abutment
NT Trading
Nobel Biocare
Straumann
Atlantis
Bio Horizon
3i

My little scan body storage kit.
View attachment 25465

3Shape has introduce a universal marker kit and so far a lot of big names are on board, this would make it so you buy one kit and all the libraries use the same scan bodies but still you send to Nobel or Straumann for manufacturing of the abutments, or in house and use the correct ti bases. But this will most likely be a while till complete and ready to roll out.

PM me and i will give you my cell call and i can explain even in depth how it all works.

Sorry for the longest post ever............................................

Than

 

[drock]

Thanks Sevan, that's great info there too to soak in.

I was just at a dinner hosted by itero(align) and found out that they have partnered up with most of the major implant players and mostly recently as two weeks ago Nobel finally jumped on board with itero. Nobel was originally trying to enter the IOS market with their own scanner but bailed out and therefore joined itero.

 

[drock]

Hi guys,

So I have a couple of itero implant digital imps. The image is with the scan bodies in the mouth....now what? if i send this to model manufacturing the scan bodies will get milled out! How do i get a an implant level model digitally and the physical form to work off of?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Hi guys,

So I have a couple of itero implant digital imps. The image is with the scan bodies in the mouth....now what? if i send this to model manufacturing the scan bodies will get milled out! How do i get a an implant level model digitally and the physical form to work off of?

what scan bodies were used?

but no, they won't mill the scan bodies. what will happen is they use the scan, in relation to the scan body geometry, to artificially place a digital version of the analog into the scan and make it into a model for printing.

at the same time, that newly placed implant can be used to make abutments and crowns.

 

[drock]

ok, so, they being (align technologies) will not mill the model with the scan body in place, but use that info to mill a model ready to accept a digital implant model replica? and where would i order the replica from? itero will send us a file back to us with the implant properly oriented to import into 3shape to work on?
this is a straumann so likely a their scan body.
i think I've seen and heard of itero milling out the scan bodies and sending it back to labs that way which doesn't help.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you have opted foralign to make the model? then they will send you a model with the analog in place. from there you have two options.

1. scan the model using your own scan bodies to design your abutment

2. reuse the digital scan by exporting the case data to your preferred design suite. really this should have been done once the case is in your itero orders inbox though soyoull be likely strongarmed into rescanning due to the fact the case is now likely locked. you can call to get it unlocked of course but again if your scan bodies don match theres no point doing this.

 

[Sarah Downs]

My lab just got off the phone with an Argen sales rep about this whole mess. We're dealing with trying to identify scan bodies for implant cases sent to us via Trios, which is a whole 'nother rodeo. We're told the implant itself is a Straumann BL, but the scan body could be NT Trading, could be the new ArgenIS. We've more or less figured out what the doctor used and we're working with her to get systems in place that we can both use without this huge hassle. Long story short, this has been a nightmare without a convenient solution. We're still trying to figure out which analogs to order.*

With iTero, at least there are a limited number of implants we could be dealing with. With Trios, the doctor uses whatever implant systems the sales reps suckered them into and then sends it to us to sort it out. In some cases, it might be easy to figure out just by looking at the scan body. In others, they could be... just about anything. Or something we've never seen before. It seems like digital implant cases have always been a circus, but Trios is really reopening the wound, even for labs who had a system down.

Anyway, I'm hoping things work out with an iTero case we just got as well. I sent it to have them make the models, but probably should have gotten the scans on my computer first, since it's locked now, and it seems they're going to take their sweet time making it available for export.

I guess my entire point is, we got a rash of implant cases we didn't even know where to start with. I've been skimming this forum, but finding I understand very little of what's being said. Does anyone have a workflow for Trios, in particular? We were told by Argen that we'll be receiving materials to become "Trios Ready," though I don't really understand what that means beyond having all the proper modules and dmes for 3Shape (which I think we already have).

Sorry for the meandering post. This has been a frustrating week.

*Update even as I was typing this. Apparently it was an ArgenIS scan body, and we just needed the dmes for Argen Model, which allows us to have them create and send a model to us with the analog in place. This whole process has been like... uhh. Pulling teeth.

 

[2thm8kr]

@Sarah Downs Provide the scan bodies to your clients. Nice and easy. I give them a few for free and if they need more I give them to the office at cost.

 

[rkm rdt]

Relying on the sales rep to facilitate your IOS cases is a fools game.
As 2th points out, you supply the scan bodies to the system you have proven to work.

I take it one step further and supply the frigging scanner. No Itero crap will ever enter these hallowed grounds

Labs used to wait for the phone to ring, now they wait for the dr to buy a scanner.

 

[Sarah Downs]

We're a production lab and unfortunately, we have enough different doctors that we certainly can't cut out iTero and 3M completely, as much as I'd love to. We're working with one of our big doctors, though, to get on the same page about which implant systems we're using (I think we settled on Zimmer? I don't know anymore. but I believe we're sending her the Elos scan bodies, which will make our lives sooo much easier). She uses the Trios scanner.

And as much as I hate wrestling with Trios at the moment, I'd certainly prefer to only have to wrestle with Trios and not have to take every different digital case under the sun, each with a different implant system.

 

[Autumn]

So you have all these companies that make scan bodies IO and desktop. OE companies like Nobel Biocare, Straumann, 3i, M.I.S., Implant Direct, Zimmer Bio Horizon and a few others. 3rd party companies like Tru Abutment, Glidewell, Dess, NT Trading, ELOS etc. Each have their own personal library designed to work with their scan bodies and their scan bodies only. Unless you tweak and crate your own library (hybrid) you must use its dedicated library. Certain companies have IO scan bodes like Nobel (Elos),they have a separate library for IO scan bodies, it is the same as the desktop library but the only thing different is the scan body within the library. You must select the IO library when setting up the trios, itero or any other IO scan order in 3shape.

Not all libraries are able to print implant models. Nobel, Dess, NT Trading, Straumann and soon M.I.S. all have DIM (Digital Implant Model) analog, which is different then the tradition implant replica used for stone casts. But all are ready for custom Ti abutment that have to be sent to the needed milling center to be produced, Nobel library designs go to Nobel, Straumann to Straumann and so on. You can not design on NT trading and have MIS or Implant direct mill it for you.

NOW, the hybrid Zr abutment you simply need to order the right part from the library's mfg, like Argen use the NT Trading library so they sell NT trading Ti bases and DIM analogs and print the implant models as well. MIS sells their own Ti bases and same with Glidewell. You can NOT use Glidewells Ti base on a abutment designed in Implant direct or Straumanns library.

All these companies will make other platforms as well. Nobel has a third party library that uses the same style IO and desktop marks (Elos) as for their platforms and they sell the needed ti bases. Keep in mind not all companies have non engaging ti bases and very few companies allow bars to be made with their libraries. Specially in house milling of Ti abutments just got harder Cause no one can sell you a ti blank to mill unless the lab is now 510K cleared or else the seller gets in trouble now.

I personally have scan markers from the following:
Glidewell
Implant Direct
MIS
Tru Abutment
NT Trading
Nobel Biocare
Straumann
Atlantis
Bio Horizon
3i

My little scan body storage kit.
View attachment 25465

3Shape has introduce a universal marker kit and so far a lot of big names are on board, this would make it so you buy one kit and all the libraries use the same scan bodies but still you send to Nobel or Straumann for manufacturing of the abutments, or in house and use the correct ti bases. But this will most likely be a while till complete and ready to roll out.

PM me and i will give you my cell call and i can explain even in depth how it all works.

Sorry for the longest post ever............................................

Can you give me a call at 253-565-1035, and help me understand how to work with a dentist who insists on scanning with iTero using Implant Direct scan bodies and who wants Implant Direct to mill the ti abutment but I have no source for an actual implant model as iTero does not work with Implant Direct and Implant Direct does not make models? Thanks, Autumn