Glidewell Launches Obsidian

[RileyS]

Unfortunately I feel that dentists are growing in numbers toward a cheap crown that fits and has a similar color. At least for posteriors but anterior units are following suite. Not the way it should be

 

[RileyS]

I'm not saying cad cam is incapable of a nice crown cause they are. I'm dying to get a scan. But the crown it designs depends on the mill and tech finishing. The other annoying thing about GW is they have their own chairside mill. huh.

 

[martintay]

I'll tell you what's realistic.... There will be more intraoral scanners sold this year, and probably twice that amount within the next 2 years..Hint hint Obsidian $75.00 crowns...... Insurance is paying less.... Cerec and E4D's are being promoted in dental meeting, lectures, trade mags, and on DT forum every minute of the day. Now we have GW and many other labs following the coat tails selling crowns at $99./$75.00... We all need to get our ducks in a row quickly. Any lab owner not looking to buy into cad/cam is in denial of the way our industry is already at, not where its heading..
We are all sheep at some level. Some labs are better at leading the way, rather than being a follower/a sheep.

We were one of the first labs to buy a Straumann scanner in the UK many years ago. At first i could charge a good fee for Etkon products because it was the new thing on the block..... but that faded in time as it became the norm ! We still do 70% PFM !!

 

[martintay]

Most of my clients have used us for 10-25 years , but the new / young dentists appear very price orientated !!

 

[Affinity]

Just because they offer this new product for a low price doesnt necessarily mean they can keep up with demand. GW cant service every dr in the country. Drs DO value service still.. The price of their service is built in the price of the crown. Most Drs cant afford mistakes over the little things late cases, improperly read RX.. No matter the price of the crown. Chasing the cheapest is no business plan anyway..

 

[MAFCDL]

Just because they offer this new product for a low price doesnt necessarily mean they can keep up with demand. GW cant service every dr in the country. Drs DO value service still.. The price of their service is built in the price of the crown. Most Drs cant afford mistakes over the little things late cases, improperly read RX.. No matter the price of the crown. Chasing the cheapest is no business plan anyway..

We have actually acquired several new clients over the last month or two that are former Glidewell users. The service issues and aggravation that went along with them were just too much for them to deal with. They identified the added value of service, and accepted the fact that service comes at the expense of a slightly higher unit fee. I personally believe that what is happening in the industry now has potential to be beneficial in the long run for smaller service-based labs. The market will be divided loosely into two segments: Dentists who are Price based with a lower focus on service, and dentists who are Service based with a lower focus on Price. I think there will be money to be made in both groups for all of us. Technology has driven down what we charge for units, but at the same time technology has also substantially increased the profits built into that crown.

 

[rkm rdt]

Solution,

All labs must have at least one supervising cdt
Lab fees are invoiced and submitted separatly to the insurance companies.

 

[JohnWilson]

Solution,

All labs must have at least one supervising cdt
Lab fees are invoiced and submitted separatly to the insurance companies.

Good luck with that, after seeing what the INSCO are doing to my clients I could imagine that the race to the bottom under their control would be even faster.

Technology is not what has caused the erosion of per unit pricing, it has taken an artisan industry and made it a manufacturing industry.

Our clients demands are still the same, the ability to fulfill their needs is still our goal. When fit function and ease of delivery is what 95% of all clients care about a machine is apt to be more efficient. The cost to play and participate becomes more about ones ability to do math than their ability to make the perfect 15powder build up.

 

[martintay]

Good luck with that, after seeing what the INSCO are doing to my clients I could imagine that the race to the bottom under their control would be even faster.

Technology is not what has caused the erosion of per unit pricing, it has taken an artisan industry and made it a manufacturing industry.

Our clients demands are still the same, the ability to fulfill their needs is still our goal. When fit function and ease of delivery is what 95% of all clients care about a machine is apt to be more efficient. The cost to play and participate becomes more about ones ability to do math than their ability to make the perfect 15powder build up.

John in your opinion what is causing price erosion ? Not the fact its becoming a manufacturing industry(by machine) ? Thanks

 

[JohnWilson]

Price erosion has been caused by years of poor business men in a unregulated industry pricing their products not on what it costs to produce but what it costs to compete.

The machines have just made lower prices viable.

 

[martintay]

Price erosion has been caused by years of poor business men in a unregulated industry pricing their products not on what it costs to produce but what it costs to compete.

The machines have just made lower prices viable.

Thanks John you are a fountain of knowledge. I think we are pretty regulated here , but along with corporate pressure on some labs i`m seeing crowns for £25-30 within a 20 mile radius of us !

 

[araucaria]

latest reported price from a local tech was £9/$14 for a pfm. unbelievable that anyone would stoop so low in the profession, and that anyone could justify fitting them, can't possibly be qualified techs, or working within current regulation.

 

[martintay]

latest reported price from a local tech was £9/$14 for a pfm. unbelievable that anyone would stoop so low in the profession, and that anyone could justify fitting them, can't possibly be qualified techs, or working within current regulation.

Unbelievable , i can`t see how this is possible ? The problem is that dentists think the rest of us charging a reasonable price are making too much money !! So much for regulation.

 

[martintay]

No amount of cad-cam will compete with that.

 

[GAP]

Stolen from Marks post on facebook.
Oh, and you can press it to metal too! Try that with emax.
Correct me if im wrong.

Couldn't find where it says you can press-to-metal with it. They're not selling it on GW direct, until Ivolcars patent on emax runs out. when that happens other companies will come out with their own LiS2 and drive prices down or add benefits. Y'know what happened? Jim got tired of paying Ivolcar for ingots so he made his own.

Germanium oxide huh, I hope it would have superior optical properties since GW and its evil spawns what to get away from layering.

As far as the low price, they charge 99 for emax cad from a model and 120ish for press. drs wont save a lot if they switcshed but GW knows some will and those drs looking to save a buck wherever they can will act as the beta testers for this product.

I do look forward to the marketing campaign for 'obsidian' I might learn something from it.

 

[Ron.Ferland]

Labwa

Where are you getting your data? I can't find a press to metal application for this product, nor pressing parameters. I read on the glidewell site that the product is milled, with no mention of pressing. Thanks,.

Stolen from Marks post on facebook.
Natural vitality with toughness surpassing conventional ceramics

Mark Jackson: The pressing temperature is almost 100c lower. Germanium oxide, even in small amounts offers superior optical qualities, which is why it's used in lasers and fiber optics. Oh, and you can press it to metal too! Try that with emax.

It looks like they're offering to dentists for $75 a unit.
Correct me if im wrong.

 

[rkm rdt]

Good luck with that, after seeing what the INSCO are doing to my clients I could imagine that the race to the bottom under their control would be even faster.

Technology is not what has caused the erosion of per unit pricing, it has taken an artisan industry and made it a manufacturing industry.

Our clients demands are still the same, the ability to fulfill their needs is still our goal. When fit function and ease of delivery is what 95% of all clients care about a machine is apt to be more efficient. The cost to play and participate becomes more about ones ability to do math than their ability to make the perfect 15powder build up.

We are having good luck with that here...for over 25 years!

It's hard to take you guys seriously when you hear " Why do I need a piece of paper when I'm just as skilled as the cdt? " and " how can you make a living on a $99 crown?" coming from the same person.

 

[charles007]

Labwa

Where are you getting your data? I can't find a press to metal application for this product, nor pressing parameters. I read on the glidewell site that the product is milled, with no mention of pressing. Thanks,.

I thought I saw press and no mention of milling.. Hope someone can clear this up, I'm really confused now.

 

[shane williams]

If the docs want to be treated like case #94wu7545340838 or whatever let them!! It won't take long before they start wanting that personal touch that LABS can give them. I say labs, cuz I feel that places like GW are a production. What is a shame is that the starting price of these units are so slow to begin with, and are practically forced fed to us through LMT, and IDT and other media outlets. Obviously these companies don't care about anything other than a high volume, to decrease the already low price of the material(especially the ones they MAKE) and sell at their bottom $$$. I use to think full zr was a great alternitive to full cast gold, but when the price war started and you couldn't compete with a $99 crown(like when we were outsourcing) and having to lower are price, which was a mistake. Now I can't stand them!!! Everybody and their brother want's a freaking $99 or below crown. Sad, very sad!!

 

[Affinity]

We are having good luck with that here...for over 25 years!

Works here too, insurance or the patient get the bill. Crown prices are 5x higher than the US also.