Fully Informed Dentists and Patients

[Wyolab]

I have been searching this thread and trying to find out more about the subject of labs that outsource, and the Dentists that use them. Some Dentists may choose to use international outsourcing labs wittingly and others may not know that their work is being done overseas. When you buy a car or a t-shirt or a can of vienna sausages it says somewhere on the product where it was made. Why is this not an issue with our products? Sure I can put made with pride in the U.S.A. stickers on my products and the Dentist will see that, but I could outsource and put no sticker on the box and who would know. I am not one to judge the quality of another labs work without seeing it, and just like here in America I am sure there are great technicians and hacks in other countries too. Some people like to buy American and should have the right to know where there products come from. Could there be a website where labs are listed that outsource? Sure there are plenty of people who buy items based on price, and I understand that people all over the world need jobs, but once the jobs leave they usually don't come back. Many Dentists are offended when a patient goes to Mexico, Costa Rica or Eastern Europe on a dental vacation. Alright I am off on a tangent, but seriously is this public information that could be compiled? Many people may not change their buying habits, but at least interested parties could find the information they wanted.

 

[Clear Precision Dental]

The honest ones would be honest and the dishonest would be dishonest. Getting people on the same moral and ethical page is the dilemma . . . of everything.

It used to be your handshake or your word was your bond.

Now people, and courts for that matter, do not care what you said, or shook hands with,etc, only what was written down in a contract. Even when it is writting down, lawyers are hired to interpret what was the "intent" of the contract, split hairs, errors of omission etc...

Regulation is only as good as enforcement, on and on and on....

 

[rkm rdt]

The honest ones would be honest and the dishonest would be dishonest. Getting people on the same moral and ethical page is the dilemma . . . of everything.

It used to be your handshake or your word was your bond.

Now people, and courts for that matter, do not care what you said, or shook hands with,etc, only what was written down in a contract. Even when it is writting down, lawyers are hired to interpret what was the "intent" of the contract, split hairs, errors of omission etc...

Regulation is only as good as enforcement, on and on and on....

Are you saying I don't have to shake people's hands anymore? Thanks CPD,
....anyone want to buy an unopened case of Purell?....

 

[VTDave]

People should be able to know what lab made it and get the list of ALL chemicals in the crown. But could the labs be part of the problem? I have found very few labs who are willing to talk to patients. If the patient knew the name of the lab wouldn't they be getting calls from patients that they didn't want?

 

[Mark Jackson]

Are any of you guys members of the NADL?

 

[Tom Moore]

The honest ones would be honest and the dishonest would be dishonest. Getting people on the same moral and ethical page is the dilemma . . . of everything.

It used to be your handshake or your word was your bond.

Now people, and courts for that matter, do not care what you said, or shook hands with,etc, only what was written down in a contract. Even when it is writting down, lawyers are hired to interpret what was the "intent" of the contract, split hairs, errors of omission etc...

Regulation is only as good as enforcement, on and on and on....

A handshake worked in the past because we lived in smaller communities and we were known by enough people there where repercussions for those that would not do what they said they would. Most live in a place so big we just don't have the local societal pressure that was once part of how we did business.

How about everybody doing what is mandated by laws already on the books and then see if there is need for more laws and rules to interpret them?


This is on every invoice.

All work you receive from fastcrowns Dental Laboratory either domestic or imported is produced only in a Texas registered dental laboratory and marked with country of origin as prescribed by law. All work is manufactured using FDA mandated GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) using only FDA registered 510K materials and using the ISO Quality Management System.

How many here are doing anything like this?

 

[cheadlemick]

Good point Tom we need to make current laws work before making new ones that applies to the UK also.

 

[VTDave]

A handshake worked in the past because we lived in smaller communities and we were known by enough people there where repercussions for those that would not do what they said they would. Most live in a place so big we just don't have the local societal pressure that was once part of how we did business.

How about everybody doing what is mandated by laws already on the books and then see if there is need for more laws and rules to interpret them?


This is on every invoice.

All work you receive from fastcrowns Dental Laboratory either domestic or imported is produced only in a Texas registered dental laboratory and marked with country of origin as prescribed by law. All work is manufactured using FDA mandated GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) using only FDA registered 510K materials and using the ISO Quality Management System.

How many here are doing anything like this?

I'm afraid that's not good enough, especially for people who have chemical sensitivities. I had a dentist do some zircon crowns. I asked him what they were made of and he just said ceramic. I am fine with feldspathic ceramic and leucite ceramic, but lithium ceramics burn my tongue. It took me months of letters, complaints and e-mails to find out that the ceramic in them was one that contained lithium. $5000 worth of work down the tubes. People need more specific information.

 

[rkm rdt]

I'm afraid that's not good enough, especially for people who have chemical sensitivities. I had a dentist do some zircon crowns. I asked him what they were made of and he just said ceramic. I am fine with feldspathic ceramic and leucite ceramic, but lithium ceramics burn my tongue. It took me months of letters, complaints and e-mails to find out that the ceramic in them was one that contained lithium. $5000 worth of work down the tubes. People need more specific information.

Why didn't you inform the dentist and lab you were allergic to lithium before you began the treatment?

 

[EJADA]

I'm afraid that's not good enough, especially for people who have chemical sensitivities. I had a dentist do some zircon crowns. I asked him what they were made of and he just said ceramic. I am fine with feldspathic ceramic and leucite ceramic, but lithium ceramics burn my tongue. It took me months of letters, complaints and e-mails to find out that the ceramic in them was one that contained lithium. $5000 worth of work down the tubes. People need more specific information.

Is there lithium in Zircon brand(zirconium)?

 

[CatamountRob]

One of Dave's previous threads.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f71/unpleasant-taste-emax-6364/

 

[Tom Moore]

I'm afraid that's not good enough, especially for people who have chemical sensitivities. I had a dentist do some zircon crowns. I asked him what they were made of and he just said ceramic. I am fine with feldspathic ceramic and leucite ceramic, but lithium ceramics burn my tongue. It took me months of letters, complaints and e-mails to find out that the ceramic in them was one that contained lithium. $5000 worth of work down the tubes. People need more specific information.

I wear a necklace to inform those that may need to treat me so I understand the problems that go along with having sensitivities to things out in this large sometimes dangerous world. The idea that its the dentist's duty to inform us and ask us about every possible danger is not reasonable. This was your responsibility.

There is a reason why dentist take a medical history from the patient. You are supposed to inform them in writing of the things that might have a bearing your treatment. There is a place to do that when you fill out the office forms when you are a first time patient and should be amended if something that may effect your treatment arises.

If you had written proof the dentist was informed of your sensitivity it would be their fault you received this work and their responsibility to replace it.

 

[Tom Moore]

One of Dave's previous threads.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f71/unpleasant-taste-emax-6364/

Münchausen's by forum?

 

[cheadlemick]

lBloody hell Tom thats actually quite funny!lol

 

[VTDave]

Why didn't you inform the dentist and lab you were allergic to lithium before you began the treatment?

I did not know I was allergic to lithium. All I knew was that I had oral allergies so I wanted a type of crown that I knew had worked in the past - captek fused to ivoclar inline. The dentist told me he would give me that. But he had the impression that all ceramics are the same. I get that false assumption from other dentists also.

He put the crowns in and I noticed the nasty chalky taste and that they irritated my tongue. The dentist still did not tell me that it was not inline. It was not until I contacted Ivoclar that I found out. The Ivoclar rep called my dentist and the dentist told him that the crowns were zircon. That STILL didn't tell me exactly what they were made of. The dentist didn't seem to know or care. He only told me that zircon is what he used. I called the lab, but they wouldn't talk to me. I e-mailed the lab but they said they didn't talk to patients. I asked the dentist to get me the exact ingredients that were in the crown, but I got no more information than that they were zircon. He said he could switch the crowns to emax at no charge so I had him do that. The emax gave me the same adverse reaction. I finally wrote a letter to the CEO of the lab - it's a big organization - and he told his people to give me the information about what was in the crowns. Turned out that the zircon crowns were a zirconia core fused to Noritake Cerebien ceramic. The Noritake Cerebien has lithium in it. Since both emax and Noritake Cerebien have lithium it seems that it is the lithium that is giving me the problem. Studies on the cytotoxicity of lithium disilicate ceramics do show that they are more cytotoxic than other ceramics also. Elsevier

 

[VTDave]

I wear a necklace to inform those that may need to treat me so I understand the problems that go along with having sensitivities to things out in this large sometimes dangerous world. The idea that its the dentist's duty to inform us and ask us about every possible danger is not reasonable. This was your responsibility.

There is a reason why dentist take a medical history from the patient. You are supposed to inform them in writing of the things that might have a bearing your treatment. There is a place to do that when you fill out the office forms when you are a first time patient and should be amended if something that may effect your treatment arises.

If you had written proof the dentist was informed of your sensitivity it would be their fault you received this work and their responsibility to replace it.

I told a dentist that I was allergic to acrylic, but he still put veneers in my mouth with an acrylic cement. When my tongue began burning he still did not admit that there was acrylic in the cement. I finally had to have my allergist get me the information from the dentist. The dentist finally admitted there was acrylic in the cement but he still refused to admit that it was the cause of my glossitis. I went to other dentists and some told me it was impossible to be allergic to dental materials. One said I was subconsciously rubbing my tongue on my teeth and that was causing my glossitis. I was in extreme pain by then but I could not get a dentist to remove the veneers.

 

[rkm rdt]

I did not know I was allergic to lithium. All I knew was that I had oral allergies so I wanted a type of crown that I knew had worked in the past - captek fused to ivoclar inline. The dentist told me he would give me that. But he had the impression that all ceramics are the same. I get that false assumption from other dentists also.

He put the crowns in and I noticed the nasty chalky taste and that they irritated my tongue. The dentist still did not tell me that it was not inline. It was not until I contacted Ivoclar that I found out. The Ivoclar rep called my dentist and the dentist told him that the crowns were zircon. That STILL didn't tell me exactly what they were made of. The dentist didn't seem to know or care. He only told me that zircon is what he used. I called the lab, but they wouldn't talk to me. I e-mailed the lab but they said they didn't talk to patients. I asked the dentist to get me the exact ingredients that were in the crown, but I got no more information than that they were zircon. He said he could switch the crowns to emax at no charge so I had him do that. The emax gave me the same adverse reaction. I finally wrote a letter to the CEO of the lab - it's a big organization - and he told his people to give me the information about what was in the crowns. Turned out that the zircon crowns were a zirconia core fused to Noritake Cerebien ceramic. The Noritake Cerebien has lithium in it. Since both emax and Noritake Cerebien have lithium it seems that it is the lithium that is giving me the problem. Studies on the cytotoxicity of lithium disilicate ceramics do show that they are more cytotoxic than other ceramics also. Elsevier

You failed to inform the lab of your allergies therefore the lab is not at fault.It is not their problem that you were not aware of your allergies.

You came on here and implied it was their fault when it wasn't. No wonder they didn't want to talk to you.

I don't either.

 

[VTDave]

You failed to inform the lab of your allergies therefore the lab is not at fault.It is not their problem that you were not aware of your allergies.

You came on here and implied it was their fault when it wasn't. No wonder they didn't want to talk to you.

I don't either.

How could I inform the lab if I did not know who the lab was? Dentists do not disclose the name of the lab unless a patient insists very forcefully. I informed my dentist of the problem but he did not take it seriously.

Labs would do better if they would actually talk to patients - the patient is the real customer. I have only found a couple of labs who would actually talk to me. Most just insist that it's illegal for them to talk to a patient.

If I had been able to talk to the lab in the first place it would have saved a lot of trouble.

 

[Tom Moore]

Its not the dentist responcability to run sencitivaty tests on every pataint. Its the pataints responcability to go to a doctor and have that done. If you didn't know how was the dentist suposed to know. The colective we can't afford the expence and time to test everone. Nobody was doin you wrong here. Take some responcability for your life.

Most labs do not want to talk to you about treatment modalities. They are not licenced or leagly qualified to do so anyway.

You are on the wrong forum we can't help you here. you may want to try a dentist or forum.

 

[2thm8kr]

How about a psychiatric forum?