Fractures using Noritake

[Matthew J Raes]

Recently going back to a Noritake porcelain and we are getting fractures on different metal types and different areas of crowns. Just in case there is anything we are overlooking we do have someone coming to work with us on it next week, but would like to have the cracking/fracturing issue taken care of before that. Any little bit helps and all questions are welcome to at least help get an idea of maybe somewhere I haven't looked yet. Thank you for your time and have a great day!

 

[Willard]

make sure you dry the opaque slow. A hot plate works good. I had trouble with noritake opaque taking along time to dry. I switched to Jensen’s creation opaque. I had some fractures a few years ago when I stripped the porc. The opaque had bubbles.
Thankfully haven’t done a Pfm in months

 

[millennium]

cte?

 

[Matthew J Raes]

cte?

Yes it is.

 

[joflabjf]

Use bonding before opaque


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[EJADA]

Recently going back to a Noritake porcelain and we are getting fractures on different metal types and different areas of crowns. Just in case there is anything we are overlooking we do have someone coming to work with us on it next week, but would like to have the cracking/fracturing issue taken care of before that. Any little bit helps and all questions are welcome to at least help get an idea of maybe somewhere I haven't looked yet. Thank you for your time and have a great day!

Assuming this is EX 3. Really surprising. I haven’t used EX3 in many years but I truly found it to be the most forgiving porcelain I have ever used and is extremely beautiful. In my experience cracks almost always come from the CTEs not being compatible. The only other occasional issues come from not finishing the metal correct IE .. sharp corners. Sometimes dirty alloy will cause bubbles but rarely cracks. Very strange foe EX3

 

[EJADA]

Use bonding before opaque


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I never used bonding agent and had great results with EX3

 

[charles007]

To be totally honest, its difficult to make Noritake crack, check, bubble up or have any problems.
CTE must be off and you can't use more than 30% Ag alloy
If anyone is having paste opaque blistering, dry our 8 to 9 minutes and no water on your opaque brush !

 

[EJADA]

To be totally honest, its difficult to make Noritake crack, check, bubble up or have any problems.
CTE must be off and you can't use more than 30% Ag
If anyone is having paste opaque blistering, dry our 8 to 9 minutes and no water on your opaque brush !

You are right on Charles. Great stuff. Very low maintenance.

 

[charles007]

There is one sure fire way to make EX3 crack, accidentally pick up an out of the oven fired crown and shake off quickly as it sticks to your finger.
That was the only time I saw EX3 crack in over 15 years of using it... lol true story !

 

[KC Joe]

make sure you dry the opaque slow. A hot plate works good. I had trouble with noritake opaque taking along time to dry. I switched to Jensen’s creation opaque. I had some fractures a few years ago when I stripped the porc. The opaque had bubbles.
Thankfully haven’t done a Pfm in months

Willard, sounds like you were building EX-3 porcelain onto the Creation opaque, is that correct? Paste opaque?
I've been using EX-3 for years, and the last few months have had a terrible time with the opaque bubbling. Have tried everything I, and several tech support folks, can think of. I hate to switch porcelains, however need to find something that works.

btw--this is my first post on DLN, so appologies if I didn't follow "protocol".

 

[JMN]

Willard, sounds like you were building EX-3 porcelain onto the Creation opaque, is that correct? Paste opaque?
I've been using EX-3 for years, and the last few months have had a terrible time with the opaque bubbling. Have tried everything I, and several tech support folks, can think of. I hate to switch porcelains, however need to find something that works.

btw--this is my first post on DLN, so appologies if I didn't follow "protocol".

Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

 

[Willard]

Willard, sounds like you were building EX-3 porcelain onto the Creation opaque, is that correct? Paste opaque?
I've been using EX-3 for years, and the last few months have had a terrible time with the opaque bubbling. Have tried everything I, and several tech support folks, can think of. I hate to switch porcelains, however need to find something that works.

btw--this is my first post on DLN, so appologies if I didn't follow "protocol".

Yes , creation opaque is what I use and have good results. I know bubbles in opaque you should have bubbles in the porcelain. But I had fractures. Stripped the porcelain and noticed I had bubbles in opaque. That was using noritake opaque. I wasn’t doing something correct. Found it to technique sensitive for me.

 

[KC Joe]

Yes , creation opaque is what I use and have good results. I know bubbles in opaque you should have bubbles in the porcelain. But I had fractures. Stripped the porcelain and noticed I had bubbles in opaque. That was using noritake opaque. I wasn’t doing something correct. Found it to technique sensitive for me.

Thanks! Yes, the EX-3 opaque seems to have become too technique sensitive for me as well. "Fortunately" the bubbles were showing up after the second opaque firing, so I wasn't stripping porcelain. However, frustrating just the same.

 

[KC Joe]

Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

Thanks, JMN!

 

[Car 54]

Thanks! Yes, the EX-3 opaque seems to have become too technique sensitive for me as well. "Fortunately" the bubbles were showing up after the second opaque firing, so I wasn't stripping porcelain. However, frustrating just the same.

Is this when using a high Pd alloy? I would get that on the 2nd opaque bakes until I ran up a degas, then re blasted it, then used a powder opaque for my first slurry opaque bake. That helped me when using Shofu Halo paste opaques on Noble metal, HN, no problems.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

pics people. always post pics.

 

[KC Joe]

Is this when using a high Pd alloy? I would get that on the 2nd opaque bakes until I ran up a degas, then re blasted it, then used a powder opaque for my first slurry opaque bake. That helped me when using Shofu Halo paste opaques on Noble metal, HN, no problems.

Yes, a high Pd alloy. What temp did you do the slurry, in relation to your paste opaque fire? 5 degrees C hotter? Thanks for the input, Car 54

 

[Tradewindj]

We fabricate between 80-100 pfms/pfzs a week with EX3 and CZR. No issues..... for very long time. If there is, it's cte or technique. IMHO

 

[Car 54]

Yes, a high Pd alloy. What temp did you do the slurry, in relation to your paste opaque fire? 5 degrees C hotter? Thanks for the input, Car 54

At the same temp, just without the hold time for the powder opaque. In Halos case, my powder opaque is 3mn ramp up to the muffle, HT is 950c with no hold. Then the next 2 paste opaques 6mn ramp up, then fire at 950 with a 1mn hold. Make sure your base temp is low enough to not be steaming the paste opaque, rather than drying it out.