Formlabs 2 3D Printer?

[Kam Yu]

I looked in Chicago and wanted to buy< but then I will have to buy model builder....any suggestions? I have Jensen Preciso/Exo so they sell it, but i will have to renew license and they dont offer the di-com module to import CT scans for surgical guides, which is what I want to make with it any ideas?

Im in the same boat. Im so behind on updates, if i want to upgrade my software itll cost me 4500+. Not complaining since i havent paid any dongle or license fees for 3 yrs. haha

 

[dandyfop]

So why is anyone using this printer for models? Checking scans against Formlabs 2 printed models shows up to 200 um deviation.
View attachment 25857

Where did you pull this page from?

 

[eyeloveteeth]

I dunno about you guys but my fits have been great on our models -

 

[cadfan]

I dunno about you guys but my fits have been great on our models -

rescan i measure it than you know the truth !!!

 

[eyeloveteeth]

We did. Actually what we did was pour up a stone model and scanned that. Then we digitally ditched and made the model, and then we hand waxed on the stone model.

Then we transferred the hand waxed veneers to the model you see above - and looked at it under the microscope.

Was it perfect? Totally not - but nothing is. Will it impede my ability to produce a high quality product? Not at all. Moreover, we were very specific and printed at 25microns with the High Temp material for the dies on one Form 2, and printed the Model V1 on another printer.


Furthermore, we've been doing diagnostic waxups and printing in White or Gray for a few weeks now, and doctors have not had an issue with the temp stent that we make over that model.


CAN it get messed up? Absolutely, but we are pretty confident we've dialed it in pretty good.

Again, just saying - for the price, the Form2 really expanded our ability to try different things and "raise the bar" in terms of quality and appearance.

 

[aqdental]

Anyone done any waxup for cast/press with the formlab?

 

[eyeloveteeth]

finally had some time to play around with a few more materials.

Gray V3
Flexible Resin

 

[Dennis green]

Can form labs print gum ?

 

[Wainwright]

Can form labs print gum ?

No soft tissue yet, but most model builder software can produce a second part for the soft tissue that can be used as a matrix.

 

[Mike2]

So I have been thinking about getting a Forms 2, but was wondering about software to couple with it. Currently getting a lot of trios scans, seems to make sense to add a station to receive scns and possibly build and print models? I thought I could lean on the expertise of the people whom have been doing this for a bit longer. I expect to print full models for bleach trays, splints, and quads with single dies to check wk. occasionally. In the future, I would like to print the implant models, with abut./ti base in place. My questions are who are the resellers of the 3shape software in midwest and cost for model builder and design? Also, where will I get the best support with the printer and is 25$ a full arch enough to make profit for ROI on printer and software before they are junk.
Thanks so much in advance for any advice.

 

[Wainwright]

So I have been thinking about getting a Forms 2, but was wondering about software to couple with it. Currently getting a lot of trios scans, seems to make sense to add a station to receive scns and possibly build and print models? I thought I could lean on the expertise of the people whom have been doing this for a bit longer. I expect to print full models for bleach trays, splints, and quads with single dies to check wk. occasionally. In the future, I would like to print the implant models, with abut./ti base in place. My questions are who are the resellers of the 3shape software in midwest and cost for model builder and design? Also, where will I get the best support with the printer and is 25$ a full arch enough to make profit for ROI on printer and software before they are junk.
Thanks so much in advance for any advice.

Hi Mike,

Do you currently have a scanner and CAD software? The reason I ask is that it will change what options you will have to get printing models in-house.

If you have a 3Shape scanner and CAD you will just need to add the model builder software, there are three different versions of the model builder for 3Shape. I can dig into the differences if it's helpful.
If you are using another CAD software like ExoCAD you will need to purchase a TRIOS inbox from 3Shape and maybe add the ExoCAD model builder.
If you don't have any CAD at all, well that can start getting pretty deep.

Without totally understanding your lab and it's current CAD CAM status I'll try to answer what I can.

Having a station to accept and build models from incoming IOS totally makes sense, especially if you have a few people in your CAD CAM department.
All the indications you listed are totally doable on the Form 2 printer and it's very easy to switch between materials on the printer once you start adding more printable products. The CAD software is a big variable, the more indications the more modules you might need to purchase. I'd recommend making a priority list together of indications you want to print. Lastly, if you are for example only doing a few splints it might make sense to check out a CAD outsourcing company like FullContour.com, this way you can manufacture the product without the learning curve and cost of the CAD to start.

Almost every Dental Lab CAD CAM reseller sells 3Shape so you have lots of options but it is also not always clear who is the best. Regretfully the midwest reseller I would have recommended is no longer selling and supporting 3Shape. But a few sellers to check out (in no particular order, sorry if I miss anyone): 3DBio CAD out of Seattle, CAP or Zahn Dental out of Boston, Whipmix out of Kentucky, and Argen out of San Diego.

CAP or Zahn Dental is a reseller of the Form 2 and they also sell 3Shape, so if you are looking for a one-stop shop they might be a good option. We also sell The Form 2 directly, regardless you are backed by our 75+ person support and service team if you buy from us or CAP.

Lastly and most importantly ROI. Like you mentioned outsourcing models can cost from $25 to sometimes as much as $50 depending on the case. In the Form 2 printing a simple quad model kit with die will cost you about $3 in material, a full arch model kit with die is about $6. Without labor or equipment cost if you are doing 20 models a month with an outsourcing bill of around $500 per month printing those parts in-house will be around $100 in material cost, saving around $400.

I hope this helps. If you give me some more info on your CAD situation I'd be happy to help you fill in the blanks.

 

[DentalTechTips]

Hi Mike,

Do you currently have a scanner and CAD software? The reason I ask is that it will change what options you will have to get printing models in-house.

If you have a 3Shape scanner and CAD you will just need to add the model builder software, there are three different versions of the model builder for 3Shape. I can dig into the differences if it's helpful.
If you are using another CAD software like ExoCAD you will need to purchase a TRIOS inbox from 3Shape and maybe add the ExoCAD model builder.
If you don't have any CAD at all, well that can start getting pretty deep.

Without totally understanding your lab and it's current CAD CAM status I'll try to answer what I can.

Having a station to accept and build models from incoming IOS totally makes sense, especially if you have a few people in your CAD CAM department.
All the indications you listed are totally doable on the Form 2 printer and it's very easy to switch between materials on the printer once you start adding more printable products. The CAD software is a big variable, the more indications the more modules you might need to purchase. I'd recommend making a priority list together of indications you want to print. Lastly, if you are for example only doing a few splints it might make sense to check out a CAD outsourcing company like FullContour.com, this way you can manufacture the product without the learning curve and cost of the CAD to start.

Almost every Dental Lab CAD CAM reseller sells 3Shape so you have lots of options but it is also not always clear who is the best. Regretfully the midwest reseller I would have recommended is no longer selling and supporting 3Shape. But a few sellers to check out (in no particular order, sorry if I miss anyone): 3DBio CAD out of Seattle, CAP or Zahn Dental out of Boston, Whipmix out of Kentucky, and Argen out of San Diego.

CAP or Zahn Dental is a reseller of the Form 2 and they also sell 3Shape, so if you are looking for a one-stop shop they might be a good option. We also sell The Form 2 directly, regardless you are backed by our 75+ person support and service team if you buy from us or CAP.

Lastly and most importantly ROI. Like you mentioned outsourcing models can cost from $25 to sometimes as much as $50 depending on the case. In the Form 2 printing a simple quad model kit with die will cost you about $3 in material, a full arch model kit with die is about $6. Without labor or equipment cost if you are doing 20 models a month with an outsourcing bill of around $500 per month printing those parts in-house will be around $100 in material cost, saving around $400.

I hope this helps. If you give me some more info on your CAD situation I'd be happy to help you fill in the blanks.

I have been using Autodesk Meshmixer, it doesn't require Model Builder and it's free. Been wanting to do a tutorial video for a while once I feel confident that I've got the process down pat.

 

[2thm8kr]

exocad Model Creator is available as a stand alone module now from what I read in the last changelog.

Not free, but a solid model solution for a reasonable price. A reseller should be able to give a price on it.

 

[Wainwright]

exocad Model Creator is available as a stand alone module now from what I read in the last changelog.

Not free, but a solid model solution for a reasonable price. A reseller should be able to give a price on it.

I heard it was: Model builder, splints, and RPD designer for $750 (maybe euros) per year. That's a great value.

 

[Wainwright]

I have been using Autodesk Meshmixer, it doesn't require Model Builder and it's free. Been wanting to do a tutorial video for a while once I feel confident that I've got the process down pat.

Nice. The only tricky part is getting the stl file out of the TRIOS if the doctor wants to use 3Shape communicate. The TRIOS inbox stand-alone will give you .stl files but if Mike2 has 3shape already stl output from TRIOs is an extra charge.

 

[2thm8kr]

I heard it was: Model builder, splints, and RPD designer for $750 (maybe euros) per year. That's a great value.

Not sure if it is a package deal or what the price is, I just remember reading about Model Creator in the last change log. I have heard the other two you mentioned are available, but have no other details.

 

[DentalTechTips]

Nice. The only tricky part is getting the stl file out of the TRIOS if the doctor wants to use 3Shape communicate. The TRIOS inbox stand-alone will give you .stl files but if Mike2 has 3shape already stl output from TRIOs is an extra charge.

It's a real shame to see a company like 3shape go in the direction that they have in recent years. Back in 2006, it was very refreshing to see an 'open system' from a company in the dental lab industry. A very stark contrast compared to closed and proprietary systems like Procera, Cercon, or Katana.

Nowadays, even if you have a model builder module, it needs to be the right one. They have: model builder (trios scans only),model builder (trios and 3rd party),and finally model builder stl (also known as Allscans depending on your reseller). Unsurprisingly, each one is more expensive than the last.

Oddly enough, we have a very sizeable adoption of Cerec and iTero in my area. These companies that have been historically known for their "closed systems" allow stl export with very little fuss.

I'm not familiar with the standalone Trios inbox solution, but if that's the case, I'd recommend directing the dentist to this tutorial for exporting to STL files and convincing them to send directly to the lab.

 

[SiKBOY]

You Dont trios inbox to accept files into Exocad.

 

[Wainwright]

It's a real shame to see a company like 3shape go in the direction that they have in recent years. Back in 2006, it was very refreshing to see an 'open system' from a company in the dental lab industry. A very stark contrast compared to closed and proprietary systems like Procera, Cercon, or Katana.

Nowadays, even if you have a model builder module, it needs to be the right one. They have: model builder (trios scans only),model builder (trios and 3rd party),and finally model builder stl (also known as Allscans depending on your reseller). Unsurprisingly, each one is more expensive than the last.

Oddly enough, we have a very sizeable adoption of Cerec and iTero in my area. These companies that have been historically known for their "closed systems" allow stl export with very little fuss.

I'm not familiar with the standalone Trios inbox solution, but if that's the case, I'd recommend directing the dentist to this tutorial for exporting to STL files and convincing them to send directly to the lab.

Remember the TRIOS when it first came out didn't even have the ability to directly export out STL files, so they are opening up as time goes on.

The direct export of STL files on TRIOs is really the easiest way for that practice to work with any lab no matter the CAD.

3Shape communicate does have some barriers if the lab isn't using 3Shape software but it is a great communication tool that makes it super easy for the dentist to send files. I believe the use of intra-oral scanners like the TRIOs should be based on a better doctor to lab communication and improving clinical outcomes not "saving money on impression material". 3Shape communicate has the case color/shade information, RX, margin marking, and screenshots of the case with notes; of course, all these great things are only possible if the doctor takes the time to do it.

With all that said most the time it's just about getting the case done... haha.

 

[SiKBOY]

Remember the TRIOS when it first came out didn't even have the ability to directly export out STL files, so they are opening up as time goes on.

The direct export of STL files on TRIOs is really the easiest way for that practice to work with any lab no matter the CAD.

3Shape communicate does have some barriers if the lab isn't using 3Shape software but it is a great communication tool that makes it super easy for the dentist to send files. I believe the use of intra-oral scanners like the TRIOs should be based on a better doctor to lab communication and improving clinical outcomes not "saving money on impression material". 3Shape communicate has the case color/shade information, RX, margin marking, and screenshots of the case with notes; of course, all these great things are only possible if the doctor takes the time to do it.

With all that said most the time it's just about getting the case done... haha.

Trios spits out a. 3oxz files that includes 90% of the above information within the file. No need for communicate or inbox to get this info.

Its a bit of a pain for the dentist to export individual stl files for each case. The. 3oxz will include all the stl files in one file.