Exocad Parameters

Toothman19

Toothman19

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
693
Reaction score
77
I wanted to start a thread for exocad users for all the various parameters that everyone uses. Feel free to discuss in here. I just got my system so I'm currently testing everything out. If you could share what parameters you are using for different materials, bridges, and implants it would be most helpful for the whole community and mostly for the newbies like me.
 
biodentg

biodentg

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
405
Reaction score
33
Good idea I always wonder what would be the best value for Anticipate Milling?
 
DMC

DMC

Banned
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
260
Depends on what tools the mill is using.

Could be different for many reasons. ??
 
biodentg

biodentg

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
405
Reaction score
33
2.0 1.0 0.6 0.3 mm and I'm using 1.4 and no issues at all but I always wonder??
 
DMC

DMC

Banned
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
260
1.4 is too much!

0.9 or even 0.8 will be better.....pattern is expanded if Zr ya know.

0.8 = 1mm internal finishing tool after the expansion of the file.

For wax or PMMA....1.05 or 1.1 due to no expansion/shrinkage.
 
DevonR

DevonR

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
514
Reaction score
77
this is an interesting topic. I was using 1.1 for zirconia and found the fits to be a hint tight. I'm already using .08 die spacer. I increased anticipate milling to 1.2 and they drop on nice.
 
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
Well, we use 0,8 diameter in the settings. It makes perfect sense if you are using 1mm tool with a part magnified by 1.25

0,8 = 1mm all day long in the world of Math in this senerio. LOL

No problems with fits. You should not need much more.

There are so many other variables, like the scan data, shape of the prep, etc. that may make fit too tight.

but we never change the anticipated milling in my world to much over 0,8

I think changing that value is not the right way to correct your issues of too tight.

(Exocad use stupid comma and not decimal for some reason?)
 
NicelyMKV

NicelyMKV

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,557
Reaction score
262
I never changed anything regarding those parameters and my stuff dropped on;)
 
DevonR

DevonR

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
514
Reaction score
77
Well, we use 0,8 diameter in the settings. It makes perfect sense if you are using 1mm tool with a part magnified by 1.25

0,8 = 1mm all day long in the world of Math in this senerio. LOL

No problems with fits. You should not need much more.

There are so many other variables, like the scan data, shape of the prep, etc. that may make fit too tight.

but we never change the anticipated milling in my world to much over 0,8

I think changing that value is not the right way to correct your issues of too tight.

(Exocad use stupid comma and not decimal for some reason?)

the comma is the European way

this is an issue I'm trying to figure out right now.. when we get a prep with sharp corners I'm having to make adjustments to fit. Are you using the block out feature? Ours is currently set at 0

Our theory with the anticipated milling is that you increase the size because it grinds a little more off for undercuts and sharp edges, etc. But I understand you don't want to go to high as you could balloon the crown.
 
biodentg

biodentg

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
405
Reaction score
33
1.4 is too much!

0.9 or even 0.8 will be better.....pattern is expanded if Zr ya know.

0.8 = 1mm internal finishing tool after the expansion of the file.

For wax or PMMA....1.05 or 1.1 due to no expansion/shrinkage.

Thank you
Scott you are always ready to help
I'll try these setting in a few cases and let's see what happens.
 
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
the comma is the European way

this is an issue I'm trying to figure out right now.. when we get a prep with sharp corners I'm having to make adjustments to fit. Are you using the block out feature? Ours is currently set at 0

Our theory with the anticipated milling is that you increase the size because it grinds a little more off for undercuts and sharp edges, etc. But I understand you don't want to go to high as you could balloon the crown.


- No, this parameter does not get applied to undercuts in exocad at all. Has nothing to do with that.
Only sharp edge, and radii smaller than your settings in the parameters for anticipated milling.

- Now, there is a setting for blocking out undercuts! You can choose to block out to a perfect 0 degree to have opposing walls or different abutments for a bridge w/completely parallel walls, or add value to allow a range of insertion path by blocking out with 1, or 2, or more degrees.

- This makes walls slightly divergent to have looser fit and allow a small range of insertion.
Useful if the adjacent tooth is leaning over to the abutments, and you are worried about having a pin-point contact, or too tight of a draw. Something like that.....

- Then, of course there are the various cement spacer parameters.

- Then, you can even manually add material to the die to have selective spacing added in only certain areas of concern. Just like using Zap-it, or some other material to block-out analog on a stone die. You modify the scan-data (mesh) of the actual die(s).

Scotty-Scott
 
Last edited:
DevonR

DevonR

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
514
Reaction score
77
I'm not sure you have to multiply by 1.25mm

That doesn't make sense to me. If you have a 1mm burr, then you set it to 1mm. You are saying your 1mm burr is .8mm logically.
 
DevonR

DevonR

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
514
Reaction score
77
Take a look here and scroll down to the 2nd last paragraph regarding milling tool diameter

http://wiki.exocad.com/wiki/index.php?title=Designing_the_inside_of_the_crown

I copy and pasted for you;

In the third tab of the „Crown bottoms“ dialog, you can also change the parameter for tool diameter compensation. If you have selected a material that is to be milled, the „Anticipate milling“ check box [4] is checked by default. Under [5], you can chose the diameter of the tool to be used for milling. It is beneficial to chose a value slightly higher than the diameter of the actual tool you're using, e.g. chose 1.2mm when milling with a 1mm tool.
 
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
I'm not sure you have to multiply by 1.25mm

That doesn't make sense to me. If you have a 1mm burr, then you set it to 1mm. You are saying your 1mm burr is .8mm logically.


I have already explain.
In CAD you are looking at 1:1 ratio...... yes 1mm = 1mm in that software.

BUT!@!!! When you import that same file you just designed into CAM, that same file get expanded due to shrinkage of the Zr. Right??

So, the new shape is 1.25 times the size. (Average magnification of Zr units as they are imported into the CAM) Your CAM software makes the shape larger. exocad has nothing to do with this at this point, and exocad has no idea what expansion ratio you are using...

Very simple to understand. So 0.8mm in anticipated milling actually produces 1mm results due to this magnification of the file, when milling most all Zirconia.

For milling objects in 1:1, like Wax and PMMA this is different.

Trust me, I am 100% correct on this! We mill tons of units everyday!

Zirconia is milled at a 1:1.25 ratio.

You understand now>???

Go home and think about it before posting.
 
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
DEVON!!! You need serious help. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Your ideas are wrong.

You are totally forgetting about the shrinkage of Zr!!

This is your problem in your brain! LOL

The CAM magnifies your exocad files!!

YES 0.8 in exocad is the same damn thing as a 1mm tool in your CAM, but ONLY when milling Zirconia!

SOOOO Easy to understand this my friend!!

Why can you not understand?

For a while, I thought you were German, but obviously not. LOL
 
Last edited:
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
I have a simple example for you.....

You design something, ANYTHING in CAD that ends up 1cm wide....OK so far? Lets just say it is a circle, or a square. Does not matter.

Now hang-on.....when you import that same shape into CAM and are milling Zirconia, that "thing" that was 1cm will now be milled at 1.25cm.

Then, after sintering it shrinks back to 1cm.

You follow me...?

So for this reason...0.8 in exocad is the same thing as 1mm in CAM for milling Zirconia.

You understand now?

0.8 (or maybe slightly higher if you prefer?) is absolutly correct for milling Zr in your settings.
This is correct setting for milling with a 1mm tool.

I am 1,000,000% POSITIVE about this.
 
French Cadman

French Cadman

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
699
Reaction score
181
T'as raison Scotty , that's right , good explanation , I agree !
 
DevonR

DevonR

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
514
Reaction score
77
then why does exocad in their OWN WIKI DOCUMENTION recommend this;

'It is beneficial to chose a value slightly higher than the diameter of the actual tool you're using, e.g. chose 1.2mm when milling with a 1mm tool'

I understand your explanation. But exoCAD is recommending the exact opposite of you.
 
P

primus

Banned
Messages
861
Reaction score
82
You are welcome to call me and we can fight about it! LOL

804-285-0777

I'll sing you a song as well.

Today is Karaoke day in the lab! LOL
 
biodentg

biodentg

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
405
Reaction score
33
True so far ........ but how would you compensate diamond tool wear after milling lets say "200 units zr" , a 1.0 mm tool is now 0.9 mm tool ? or the tool does not wear at all until 500+ units?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

vladpereverzyev
Replies
0
Views
362
vladpereverzyev
vladpereverzyev
filippos
Replies
20
Views
2K
filippos
filippos
npdynamite
Replies
30
Views
5K
JKraver
JKraver
Top Bottom