Exocad 3.2: Auto-Articulator, total garbage or am I missing something ?

[Thibaut]

Yo,
Have you guys checked out the new feature of 3.2 ? It calculates a dynamic occlusion at the "place model tooth" stage. Placement is really odd, plus it cuts your scans as you would do after the "model alignement" automatically without asking anything ! Obviously it ****s up your front view since this is set by setting articulator or "model alignement".
Here's pics of the placement.

What do you think ? Should I consider it's calculations are correctly done by smart analyzing the meshes or what ? There's also an app that's supposed to find your bite with "AI" (cough cough) called bite-finder, it's meh.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

the first step in design should not be press next to place margins.

it should always be Expert:Articulator so you can set up the arches in the right plane.

then go to wizard and carry on.

you cannot expect the software to just know it. garbage in is garbage out. refine your workflow. if you want Exocad to be better then you have to be better.

 

[Affinity]

If you want exocad to work, prepare to jump through some hoops

The wizard apparently isnt a dental technician, just an ordinary wizard who doesnt know the model goes in the articulator.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Exocad as a company is called Exocad GmbH, which is German for Exocad LLC

limited liability corporation

so no, they take no responsibility for your f1ckups. they just make the software and you do with it what seems best.

 

[Affinity]

they take no responsibility in theirs either apparently

 

[Avrutin]

Yo,
Have you guys checked out the new feature of 3.2 ? It calculates a dynamic occlusion at the "place model tooth" stage. Placement is really odd, plus it cuts your scans as you would do after the "model alignement" automatically without asking anything ! Obviously it ****s up your front view since this is set by setting articulator or "model alignement".
Here's pics of the placement.

What do you think ? Should I consider it's calculations are correctly done by smart analyzing the meshes or what ? There's also an app that's supposed to find your bite with "AI" (cough cough) called bite-finder, it's meh.

In Depent how you use it. We work with Exo 5+ Years and its work each time. In Automatik Articulation you schould place you points bettween 41/31 > 36 distal cups > 46 Distal cups. Sometimes if Patient Arch not l you must some adjustment it. Exocad just do, what you tell them 2 do.

Ofc it a Problem if you have 1/2 Arch, than you can adjustment it manualy. But try 2 acticulate in "physical Arti" with stone half Arch, you will probably also fail on planes =))

 

[Zona]

Yo,
Have you guys checked out the new feature of 3.2 ? It calculates a dynamic occlusion at the "place model tooth" stage. Placement is really odd, plus it cuts your scans as you would do after the "model alignement" automatically without asking anything ! Obviously it ****s up your front view since this is set by setting articulator or "model alignement".
Here's pics of the placement.

What do you think ? Should I consider it's calculations are correctly done by smart analyzing the meshes or what ? There's also an app that's supposed to find your bite with "AI" (cough cough) called bite-finder, it's meh.

Man what you know abou Bonwill and Bonwill Triangle,what you know about maxilary inclanation and what it means for example Denar Line or Campers line? Then what you know of Biomehanics of the TMJ..(those are just basics) start from there ...and after you learn all that then you will notice that articulator in Exocad actualy dont shows you the most important thing ..and that is it does not show you whats your working contact..what is your Balancing contact ,what is your centric contact what is your retrusive and protrusive contact...it does not shows you the look how they shall look and they are actualy put as one huge blooob ....so it is pointles to use articulator in exocad for its main purpuse....but you still can use it to orientate models corectly acording to bonwill averages which again is better then nothing(if you dont have pictures for smille creator) ...learn ppl learn..knowlidge is your biggest inestition in our profession

 

[Zona]

In Depent how you use it. We work with Exo 5+ Years and its work each time. In Automatik Articulation you schould place you points bettween 41/31 > 36 distal cups > 46 Distal cups. Sometimes if Patient Arch not l you must some adjustment it. Exocad just do, what you tell them 2 do.

Ofc it a Problem if you have 1/2 Arch, than you can adjustment it manualy. But try 2 acticulate in "physical Arti" with stone half Arch, you will probably also fail on planes =))

Ok ..read my comment to OP ..and here to correct you ..why would you put a half arch in an articulator? ..if person have oposing teeth then you need to check his individual condilar angle ,protrusive and retrusive one to..without that you are just doing a guesing work without hsving any idea will your bridge cause mess in patient mouh..for example if you gonna go with standard value of 30* condilar angle and your patient have actualy 60* and have a two molars in oclusion you gonna mess him up for good...learn ppl learn and do those thing like you are making them for your family members ...if someone says well im not paid enough for all that..then learn so you gonna get paid acording to your skill...but please dont do guess work on Patients..experiment in your lab on something which wont potentialy ruin someones life......im sorry for not giving the easy answer you want but truth is i cant do it here ..you gonna need to read and learn it on your own ..about articulator and what he repr
esents just for basic understanding of it you gonna need to read hundreeds and hundreeds of pages and for proper understanding it is around 6k pages ..

 

[Affinity]

6000 pages? : can you give us the cliffs notes?

 

[cadfan]

If your scans are not real postioned ask your scanner manufaturer EXO only executes the **** with the scanner coordinates transferd into it.

 

[Zona]

6000 pages? : can you give us the cliffs notes?

Proper understanding means to know almoust all for performing surgery in TMJ ..and basics i gave them to you ..

 

[Affinity]

no we got a lecture and a bunch of glossary terms. How do you articulate quadrant models? It sounds like youre saying its impossible without ruining someone for life. So then do we convince the Dr to take full arch impressions and gothic arch tracings for every molar like he would for his family member? Where in europe are you from?

 

[Car 54]

no we got a lecture and a bunch of glossary terms. How do you articulate quadrant models? It sounds like youre saying its impossible without ruining someone for life. So then do we convince the Dr to take full arch impressions and gothic arch tracings for every molar like he would for his family member? Where in europe are you from?

Yep, Professor Zona showed up...my goodness did they show up

 

[Zona]

no we got a lecture and a bunch of glossary terms. How do you articulate quadrant models? It sounds like youre saying its impossible without ruining someone for life. So then do we convince the Dr to take full arch impressions and gothic arch tracings for every molar like he would for his family member? Where in europe are you

It is imposibile to work as is in the mouth with half arch and in articulator you gonna get different readings with full arch and half (from same exact model..you can check it yourself easy ..get artikulator use pindex system(or some equwalent) first find the settings for full arches ..then remove one half(and do the protrusive and sagital movaments with same settings you got from full arch and you will see that except centrict contacts all other contacts will be totaly different ..(mount models using an mounting table acording to bonwel triangle and campers line with 10 deegrees(those are averages) if you have a facebow then that will be perfect for individualization but for testing you need just averages) ...

Now to give you best answer for a small piece ..when you are in articulator dont put the scanned model on occlusal flat plane as you do with full arches but put your model high toward Frankfort plane of articulator and back toward condiles ( if is left half arch then positionate it on ldft side in articulator if is right then its self explanatory) ..and you will get with that better readings compared to full arch ...


Now
The Frankfort plane is a horizontal reference plane used to standardize height measurement, eliminating variations in posture and head tilt. It is defined as a line drawn between:
The inferior Orbitale rim (just under the eye)and Tragus or the opening of the external auditory meatus (ear canal)..

as i said learn ppl ..it is not about how many units you gonna sell by competing with other labs who gonna sell it cheaper ..
it is about how you gonna price yourself( for me is less work more money) ..and when you have knowlidge you can go and explain to Doctor where he is making a mistake and how to do it properly (and if he is some egocentrical wierdo then tell him Bye bye ..its better then having a head ache )..
sorry for being blunt but lack of knowlidge among"dental technicians" is unmatched by any other proffesion and gives us a bad reputation ..we arent selling cookies on the street we are doing something which no one else is doing so rise the bar ( i know that in USA you dont even need to go in colage or uni to become dental technician but in majority of the world you need to have atleast 2.5 years to get your basic degree..(4 years is Specialist DT 5 years is Bacelor and im With a title of Master dental technician it takes 7 years at university ..i graduated in 2005 and since then havet stoped learning,the day i stop it will be the day i retire..i have graduated in Bulgaria in medical university Varna ..today i have two clinics in Bulgaria and one in Serbia ( on the way is mine 4-th clinic same in Bulgaria and if all goes ok it will start runing at begining of 2025 ....

 

[Avrutin]

Ok ..read my comment to OP ..and here to correct you ..why would you put a half arch in an articulator? ..if person have oposing teeth then you need to check his individual condilar angle ,protrusive and retrusive one to..without that you are just doing a guesing work without hsving any idea will your bridge cause mess in patient mouh..for example if you gonna go with standard value of 30* condilar angle and your patient have actualy 60* and have a two molars in oclusion you gonna mess him up for good...learn ppl learn and do those thing like you are making them for your family members ...if someone says well im not paid enough for all that..then learn so you gonna get paid acording to your skill...but please dont do guess work on Patients..experiment in your lab on something which wont potentialy ruin someones life......im sorry for not giving the easy answer you want but truth is i cant do it here ..you gonna need to read and learn it on your own ..about articulator and what he repr
esents just for basic understanding of it you gonna need to read hundreeds and hundreeds of pages and for proper understanding it is around 6k pages ..

First, thank you for your answer. If you work with a doctor who always performs axiography with individual values for each side angle of the patient, that's great for you. In Germany and Switzerland, axiography alone costs between €800 and €1000 with Zebris.


Of course, you have your own opinion, and I understand that this situation is not ideal for many people. But if you take a closer look at how doctors and technicians work around the world, you’ll see that it's no longer just about helping people—it has become a business.


If I had the option to choose a fairy-tale world with perfect conditions, I would take it. Until then, we work with what we have...

 

[Affinity]

Its not that complicated to take excursive bite scans.. although the digital gothic arch stuff looks pretty cool, im sure it will become more standard of care with more digital dentures and AOX