Encode thoughts?

[Jason D]

Like everyone else I thought encode was a neat idea when it was released, and like everyone else I was very disappointed at the gaps that existed and still exist today, so I’ve been trying to think of what I can do to improve the result from my side.

I have 3 issues with encode:
1: the milling center is the most unreliable we deal with in terms of service - last month we waited almost 2 weeks for a single ti abutment and they could not even tell us when it would be done for days.
2: the qc rarely (never)meets our standards, from massive problems, like getting an abutment back that is in contact with the opposing on the model (even had a gouge on the opposing from them closing the articulation into the abutment) to lesser problems with shape and angulation, all of which we have to corrected in the lab before even starting the restorative.

I don’t know what we can do about those other than complain or vote with our feet.

The third big problem though, I want to try to address: the robocast process.
The placement of the analog in the model Creates a column of destruction three times the size of the abutment when they bore out the model for analog placement. This usually destroys surrounding gingival architecture, sometimes even adjacent teeth…

So I’m thinking about scanning the model prior to sending to 3I, then scanning the encode model with a scan tag in place and reverse engineering an printed implant model. We sometimes do this “analog style” right now, just making a matrix pre-op and creating a soft tissue segment over the destroyed portion of the encode model, but I would like to make the process more consistent and have the reference of overlayed scans to show the doc what we did and why...

Thoughts?

 

[RDA]

HATE them!

Old and out dated idea! I have experienced the same issues. Long turn around times, not the exact design that was proposed, and pricey. We stopped taking Encode cases years ago now, and tell the dentist to take a traditional impression for those cases. To stress this to them, we also tell them that the turn around time from our lab would be four weeks or more, and to hit it home tell them the pricing is much higher. We just don't do Encode cases, and our clients have been fine sending us a regular impression for them.

 

[Jason D]

HATE them!

Old and out dated idea! I have experienced the same issues. Long turn around times, not the exact design that was proposed, and pricey. We stopped taking Encode cases years ago now, and tell the dentist to take a traditional impression for those cases. To stress this to them, we also tell them that the turn around time from our lab would be four weeks or more, and to hit it home tell them the pricing is much higher. We just don't do Encode cases, and our clients have been fine sending us a regular impression for them.

I agree and that has been our approach as well.
we have a couple well liked clinical reps in the area and we are looking for a way to be synergistic with them without compromising our reputation and results.

 

[Contraluz]

I bite...

I have only done a couple encode cases. Although, I was approached by 3i, many years ago, to be part of a trial for the predecesor of encode (I think architecture was the name?). But that was in a different country and times...

Anyway. I think the idea, to scan a healing cap and process a model out of it, so to speak, is not bad. But it has to be carried over to the digital age. With the abilities to print models, today, in combination with IOS, it almost seems to be archaic to take an impression and then apply a destructive process, in order to place an analog.

I feel 3i, and other companies (Procera comes to my mind) were innovative at the moment, but got run over by the whole digital revolution and in-house scanning/milling solutions.

complain or vote with our feet

Unfortunately this is the only way to make them understand and hopefully improve.

I’m thinking about scanning the model prior to sending to 3I

Should work.

I have 3 issues with encode:

Cant you find another solution, if it so unreliable?

M

 

[rkm rdt]

I solved this with my lab in a box.

 

[2thm8kr]

I solved this with my lab in a box.

You have a Zimmer/3i milling center in that lab box?

 

[Jason D]

I bite...




Cant you find another solution, if it so unreliable?

M

not if I want to collaborate with the 3I reps, which I would like to do, but they system is the problem, always has been. So I am looking for a way to say "look guys, your system has gaping holes and we cannot fix all of them but here's what WE can do...but you need to work on your side to improve your pieces"

 

[ToothmakerIDL]

Like everyone else I thought encode was a neat idea when it was released, and like everyone else I was very disappointed at the gaps that existed and still exist today, so I’ve been trying to think of what I can do to improve the result from my side.

I have 3 issues with encode:
1: the milling center is the most unreliable we deal with in terms of service - last month we waited almost 2 weeks for a single ti abutment and they could not even tell us when it would be done for days.
2: the qc rarely (never)meets our standards, from massive problems, like getting an abutment back that is in contact with the opposing on the model (even had a gouge on the opposing from them closing the articulation into the abutment) to lesser problems with shape and angulation, all of which we have to corrected in the lab before even starting the restorative.

I don’t know what we can do about those other than complain or vote with our feet.

The third big problem though, I want to try to address: the robocast process.
The placement of the analog in the model Creates a column of destruction three times the size of the abutment when they bore out the model for analog placement. This usually destroys surrounding gingival architecture, sometimes even adjacent teeth…

So I’m thinking about scanning the model prior to sending to 3I, then scanning the encode model with a scan tag in place and reverse engineering an printed implant model. We sometimes do this “analog style” right now, just making a matrix pre-op and creating a soft tissue segment over the destroyed portion of the encode model, but I would like to make the process more consistent and have the reference of overlayed scans to show the doc what we did and why...

Thoughts?

Become encode empowered lab
Biomet gives ou encode mapping
Create digital scans and place my trading analogs
Design your own abutments and have biomet mill
Place abutment on printed model with analog attached. Problem solved.

 

[Jason D]

Become encode empowered lab
Biomet gives ou encode mapping
Create digital scans and place my trading analogs
Design your own abutments and have biomet mill
Place abutment on printed model with analog attached. Problem solved.

whats that run?

 

[2thm8kr]

$10k

 

[Jason D]

Yeah I’m not payring them 10k to compensate for their issues

 

[rkm rdt]

You have a Zimmer/3i milling center in that lab box?

really long extension cord

 

[rkm rdt]

Why wait for that case to come to you?
Show up with your own scan body .

 

[doug]

While I'm not a large lab at all, I've spoken to all of my docs and explained the series of events that have in the past lead to problems with Encode. They now take an implant level impression and I send it to another milling center. We design the abutment and send out the file. Biomet is not my friend, they are a large corporation who will squeeze your balls until you faint, if you let them

 

[rkm rdt]

ouch,maybe I'll let my wife deal with them

 

[millennium]

I am a one man lab, and after researching encode it seems 3i is making all the profit and I am just making a crown. Their abutment was quoted to me at $342 including shipping. I never encountered the crappy quality of encode because I don't provide it to my clients. The main reason the dentists like encode is not to have to look for/order parts and the impression taking. But my clients mother's encode case came to me with a impression coping in!

 

[ToothmakerIDL]

In my personal experience, I have not ever had an issue with encode abutments not the production process. I am In the neighborhood of about 2k encode abutments to date. As long as you are reviewing abutment design prior to milling, it shouldn’t be an issue. I am in no way endorsed by the company and I work with all Implants and milling centers as it relates to Implants and have had great success with it. There is an option to utilize an encode empowered lab for the digital model production along with abutment design review that will give you more control over the production aspect. It also comes with a lower fee in some instances if you partner with the right lab. This would save you the 10k buy in and treat it on a case by case basis.

 

[Affinity]

Why not just talk the Dr into using something else? Theres a bajillion implants out there now. I used to do a ton of 3i in Florida but Ive only done one encode abutment, it was nice, but a hassle to ship models off. The robodrill seems antiquated... Superglue an analog? I see this being phased out.. is 3i really a big player anymore? I always had an issue with the tabs on the Certain abutments, they would bend and break off if you werent really delicate.

 

[doug]

We had a periodontist who only placed Biomet implants because his son-in-law is the Biomet Rep. He retired and the guy who took over the practice is open to other systems and I've had a conversation with him.

 

[Jason D]

We had a periodontist who only placed Biomet implants because his son-in-law is the Biomet Rep. He retired and the guy who took over the practice is open to other systems and I've had a conversation with him.

That particular rep has had some influence, and since the merger another decent rep has come on the scene who I’d like to collaborate with, that’s the only reason for pursuing this line of thought.

Most of our new clients only send an encode once, and after we outline the differences they go with a conventional or digital impression and encode goes out the window.

I’m not willing to jump through hoops for a substandard system, but if someone really wants to do it that way I would like to improve the process.